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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#181

Post by naturalmovement »

I will never grow tired of highly paid so-called geniuses so deluded by their own hubris they think no one will not only not notice them moving GBs of data onto a USB on their last day of work, but assume they also don't have logs of everything you accessed and everything you took.

Little no-name companies have this capability with off the shelf software.

Large companies like Apple have entire departments of staff whose job it is to monitor data theft.

It's bonkers and I love every single story as if it's never been told before.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#182

Post by paxys »

saghm wrote: post #132
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

The crucial part of why non-competes are gross is that they're trying to enforce what you do after someone stopped receiving anything from the past employer . If someone is helping competitors when still working somewhere, or actively taking stuff from their past employer after they've left, then yeah, of course that's dumb and should be punished. But there's no reason a non-compete clause is needed for that!

The companies are based in California, so regular non-competes are irrelevant. This is solely about IP theft.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#183

Post by etchalon »

Andrex wrote: post #173
Marciplan wrote: post #53

probably the real reason why Apple opted Gemini over ChatGPT

There's also the possibility it was a coincidence, and the stakeholders in the Gemini decision are breathing a heavy sigh of relief.

Based on the timelines at play here, I'd wager this.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#184

Post by cosmicgadget »

mingus88 wrote: post #55
Conscat wrote: post #21

According to Apple, are there any tech companies in the galaxy who haven't stolen their trade secrets?

If you can’t see the difference between a design firm pointing out obvious riffs on their first to market designs… And a company openly instructing poached employees to exfiltrate documents on their way out the door, well…

I didn't read the full complaint but the article focuses on bringing Apple IP to interviews. It's not clear that it was intended to steal trade secrets.

The Liu guy seemingly did so but he wouldn't be the first person to try to take his own work product out the door for personal reasons.

I distrust statements like:

> “pattern by employees who depart for OpenAI of taking steps to evade the security processes intended to protect Apple’s confidential information.”

This could mean almost anything.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#185

Post by aobdev »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #170
joe_mamba wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in l…

Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? I know there's some evidence of Chinese people working at big tech and feeding data back to the CCP but is this a "low trust culture" issue in general or an extrapolation of that one pattern?

I think you’ve made an extreme leap in your interpretation of the comment you’re replying to…

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#186

Post by steve_adams_86 »

Aurornis wrote: post #124
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

> Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them

Right. I noticed a coworker who recently left the organization was still running some of our software on his personal computer (evident in the access logs) and notified him that I could see, he should be more careful, etc. We agree to these contracts because compliance matters, not just because we need the job.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#187

Post by doginasuit »

bigyabai wrote: post #11
ErneX wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." - Steve Jobs

Funny thing, Steve Jobs is the only source that attributes this quote to Picasso, and it seems very likely he made it up.

The idea behind the quote most likely came from T.S. Eliot: Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#188

Post by mcmcmc »

nujabe wrote: post #165
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need criminal charges to be filed against Liu, Tan and Peng. (And deep discovery to find anything Altman might have said to or about them.)

Wait, who is “we”? Why are you so invested in enforcing Apple’s IP rights?

Why don’t you care about the rule of law?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#189

Post by markdown »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #170
joe_mamba wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in l…

Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? I know there's some evidence of Chinese people working at big tech and feeding data back to the CCP but is this a "low trust culture" issue in general or an extrapolation of that one pattern?

> Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case?

Of course not. Have you been following national news or politics the past few years, and the continued incredibly strong support bad actors received despite atrocious behavior and even allegedly criminal acts?

The grandparent commentor is just racist.

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