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QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#81

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

mikeweiss wrote: post #78
FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely 4G LTE MTM ( https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet-of-things... ). It's dirt cheap and paid for by the vendor of the device it is in (usually) in the name of 'telemetry'. I've seen so many random industrial devices and parts come into our plant that have their own cellular it's wild.

You really think these are in TVs going unoticed and someone is paying for each radio?

I have $100 devices in industrial devices that have them. In bulk, they cost next to nothing (not quite as cheap as RFID but getting there).

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#82

Post by jcims »

mikeweiss wrote: post #41
mlfreeman wrote: post #34

The visualizer reminds me of my thermal camera. I have heard claims of devices (mostly TVs) supposedly coming with secret 5G cell uplinks built in [never heard a specific model mentioned though]. If there were more variants covering more commonly-used RF bands, people could walk around and literally check for once. (incidentally i'm sure three letter agencies have had this sort of tech in their bug-detecting toolkit…

Whos paying the telcos for those 5G connections and also has the FCC been degraded so much that they would allow for undeclared radios in consumer products?

My truck (Ford) has some cell connectivity that I’ve never paid for. At scale it’s likely very inexpensive.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#83

Post by jkuli »

mmaunder wrote: post #15

Historically these have been quickly shut down without much of an explanation.

The covered materials are very broad, though often limited to equipment built "for purposes of", like in this section.

Title 22 Chapter I Subchapter M Part 121 - The United States Munitions List - Category XI Paragraph b

Electronic systems, equipment or software, not elsewhere enumerated in this subchapter, specially designed for intelligence purposes that collect, survey, monitor, or exploit, or analyze and produce information from, the electromagnetic spectrum (regardless of transmission medium), or for counteracting such activities.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#84

Post by shakow »

fierycatnet wrote: post #66

I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

> That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

This is a bog-standard phased-array RDF calibrated for WiFi freqs; that stuff is already in every single defense show.

Also, that's why there's jamming everywhere (to blind that kind of things) and why many UAVs are now tethered to optical fibers instead of being RF-controlled.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#85

Post by hinkley »

piinbinary wrote: post #48

One day I want to build something like this, except for sound. It would be great to get a heading and distance for where a sound is coming from. This could be both for small scale things (e.g. which part of this is squeaking?) or large scale (e.g. is that booming noise coming from the construction a few blocks away?)

The army has one of these for sniper triangulation, and Boeing made a civilian version for optimizing sound dampening on the 787. I don’t know if they kept doing that on subsequent planes but I would expect so given how enthusiastic they were about being able to apply the weight budget to greater effect.

You need really high clock rate sensing to differentiate the arrival time for sound from microphone arrays where they are all less than a nanosecond separated from each other.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#86

Post by euroderf »

TrackerFF wrote: post #79
fierycatnet wrote: post #66

I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

It detects drones which send out RF signals at the same frequency band. Most drones used in Ukraine are tethered with thin optical wire exactly because one of the first anti-drone measures was to simply jam them at the frequencies the operators used. There are some more advanced anti-drone measures at work: Like blasting them with directed high-energy microwaves to destroy the circuits.

Frequency hopping is not THAT difficult.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#87

Post by jkuli »

jkuli wrote: post #83
mmaunder wrote: post #15

Historically these have been quickly shut down without much of an explanation.

The covered materials are very broad, though often limited to equipment built "for purposes of", like in this section. Title 22 Chapter I Subchapter M Part 121 - The United States Munitions List - Category XI Paragraph b Electronic systems, equipment or software, not elsewhere enumerated in this subchapter, specially designed for intelligence purposes that collect, survey, monitor, or exploit, or analyze and produce…

At what point does a microphone become an intelligence device, when we have so many types of microphones. Is it an arbitrary label I can add or remove to a product? Will it apply equally to large manufacturers?

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#88

Post by its_down_again »

dfc wrote: post #54
piinbinary wrote: post #48

One day I want to build something like this, except for sound. It would be great to get a heading and distance for where a sound is coming from. This could be both for small scale things (e.g. which part of this is squeaking?) or large scale (e.g. is that booming noise coming from the construction a few blocks away?)

Fluke has made an acoustic imager for a while now. It is used for detecting leaks: https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/industrial-imaging/fluke...

Has anyone tried acoustic imaging for water leaks inside walls? I live in a multi-floor 1900s Victorian. A leak can affect several units, and tracing the source can mean opening walls or floors in multiple places, and coordinating access has been getting harder with less WFH.

Could one of these tools help map water pipe routes and trace a leak, or are they only going to be useful for air and gas leaks?

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#89

Post by idiotsecant »

TrackerFF wrote: post #79
fierycatnet wrote: post #66

I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

It detects drones which send out RF signals at the same frequency band. Most drones used in Ukraine are tethered with thin optical wire exactly because one of the first anti-drone measures was to simply jam them at the frequencies the operators used. There are some more advanced anti-drone measures at work: Like blasting them with directed high-energy microwaves to destroy the circuits.

Most drones aren't optical because optical drones sacrifice payload and distance, they're only used when broad spectrum jamming is expected. Jamming of that type is expensive and heavy enough that infantry probably won't be jamming, or light vehicles, or a lot of infrastructure.

Re: QuadRF can spot drones and see WiFi through my wall

#90

Post by squarefoot »

euroderf wrote: post #86
TrackerFF wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It detects drones which send out RF signals at the same frequency band. Most drones used in Ukraine are tethered with thin optical wire exactly because one of the first anti-drone measures was to simply jam them at the frequencies the operators used. There are some more advanced anti-drone measures at work: Like blasting them with directed high-energy microwaves to destroy the circuits.

Frequency hopping is not THAT difficult.

Brute force wide band jamming would be easy too and would make hopping ineffective. Unless drones use self tuning antennas to overcome losses, they can't hop too far away from the antenna resonance frequency, which makes jammers job easier.
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