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Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

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Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#81

Post by [deleted] »

vrganj wrote: post #47
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#82

Post by Tade0 »

petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

I think this was overhyped in the media.

I live at 51°N and apartments in my building that face the south largely have AC. I've seen a lot of AC company vans in my neighborhood lately, so I guess many people pulled that trigger this year.

Personally I went to the mountains as it's a 2h drive and naturally cool, moist air beats AC every time.

The people who refuse to install it and make up the majority of deaths are simply old - older than the average life expectancy in the US - and thus typically pinching pennies - especially that for the vast majority of their lives it wasn't necessary.

My father had AC installed a several years ago due to his health and it was probably working overtime this season.

My mother lives in a commie block that is well insulated and surrounded by green spaces, so the heatwave didn't affect her nearly as much.

My college friend discovered his heat pump is actually reversible, so now instead of heated, they have cooled floors. Unfortunately the device wasn't smart enough to on one hand use the heat to heat up tap water and the cold to cool the surroundings, but I guess you can't have everything.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#83

Post by swiftcoder »

vrganj wrote: post #47
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

I think this view is changing as solar adoption takes off in southern Europe. Here in Spain we're in the position that market rates for electricity are often negative while the sun is shining (although these rates are not really passed onto consumers at present).

That makes additional cooling load almost a non-issue, and can help incentivise the transition from diesel boilers -> heat pumps, as well as driving the grid upgrades we sorely need to make use of all the solar capacity.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#84

Post by [deleted] »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #74
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation. Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, mayb…

When the temperature in Berlin is higher than 30degC, it becomes the south. People start to shout, honk, argue in the streets, stay up late. We are affected by the weather much more than we'd like to admit.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#85

Post by jonwinstanley »

petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

If you only need it for 4 days a year, it’s still a big expense that needs some thought

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#87

Post by Muromec »

quickthrowman wrote: post #63
Muromec wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a warmtepomp -- it's great, but it is cooling the house, not the air a only gets it to 5 day degrees down. It's mandatory for new houses in Amsterdam I think and there seem to plans to retrofit old buildings. It helps that we also produce it, but the usual types tried to sabotage that too last time.

As a native English speaker, I love how some Dutch terms are clearly understandable to me without knowing Dutch, “warmtepomp” is a wonderful word :)

Dutch is the English that makes sense (not a native speaker of either).

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#88

Post by cassianoleal »

alex7o wrote: post #80
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still buy a cooling-only unit no problem. Slightly cheaper than a heat pump.

Yes but still, I don't think it is worth it when you can heqt with it more efficiently than burning gas or coal.

At least in the UK, there's a massive move to heat pumps. The problem is that it's only for heating, through the usual central heating systems - so it just replaces the boiler. It's almost unheard of to have one for air conditioning. Usually people with air-con get a portable one that's only for cooling.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#89

Post by em-bee »

mamonster wrote: post #25

>The union said employers should take steps to cool down workplaces once temperatures exceed 24C, with workers able to stop working if temperatures reach 30C, or 27C for those doing manual labour or working outdoors. Geneva already has a version of this. You have to stop outside work at 13h00 unless it's necessary, in which case you have to take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work. However the threshold isn't 2…

take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work

i guess you meant the reverse?

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#90

Post by Muromec »

globular-toast wrote: post #76
vrganj wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.

It isn't necessarily true. Here (bottom of the sea) it's only hot when the there isn't any clouds, so solar energy that produces the heat is also producing the electricity to run the AC.

It's also a misdirection of guilt. It's not the accumulated CO2 from the decades of burning all kinds of shit that is driving the weather, it's your personal AC unit.

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