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Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

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Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#71

Post by swiftcoder »

rwmj wrote: post #48
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

Which bit of Europe are you talking about? Italy and Spain have AC everywhere. Further north it hasn't been necessary until very recently, and now people are fighting in shops to buy portable units and there are going to be loads of permanent installations once things settle down later this year.

> Italy and Spain have AC everywhere

Southern Spain may, but it's virtually unheard of up here in Galicia/Asturias/Cantabria. Even many businesses in these parts don't have AC, and our Ourense region has pretty regularly had 40+ C days the last ~5 summers

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#72

Post by lrae »

quickthrowman wrote: post #16

Vapor compression refrigeration has been mass produced for a century. Add a reversing valve and you have a heat pump. Europe better get started on installs, it’s not going to cool down.

What makes you think that this isn't happening?

China ramps up production & shipping to Europe [1] and a quick glance at Google Trends for Germany, UK and France AC install searches are up 5x from last year, and last year was already double or more of the previous years.

1: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202607/1364856.shtml

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#73

Post by alex7o »

zarzavat wrote: post #46
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heatwave The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.

Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when outside is colder and inside is veru warm as it moves heat faster than opening the window and waiting.

I know not AC are/were heat pumps but I don't know of any that are not anymore

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#74

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #54
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation. Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, mayb…

When the temperature in Berlin is higher than 30degC, it becomes the south. People start to shout, honk, argue in the streets, stay up late.

We are affected by the weather much more than we'd like to admit.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#75

Post by 4gotunameagain »

jltsiren wrote: post #42
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

Things are already much better than they used to be. The 2003 heatwave killed ~70k. This year's heatwave was worse, but the number of deaths probably didn't go much beyond 20k.

We also recently had COVID to cull the herd. I imagine many people are missing from the stats because of it.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#76

Post by globular-toast »

vrganj wrote: post #47
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#78

Post by loloquwowndueo »

alex7o wrote: post #73
zarzavat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heatwave The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.

Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when…

You can still buy a cooling-only unit no problem. Slightly cheaper than a heat pump.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#79

Post by vrganj »

globular-toast wrote: post #76
vrganj wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.

Indeed. It is true. However, it's not exactly helping if the other side of the pond burns gas turbines to power their AI dreams and tells us to "just get AC bro".

AC does make the problem worse, the issue is just that climate change is mostly out of Europe's control.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#80

Post by alex7o »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #78
alex7o wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when…

You can still buy a cooling-only unit no problem. Slightly cheaper than a heat pump.

Yes but still, I don't think it is worth it when you can heqt with it more efficiently than burning gas or coal.
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