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Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

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Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#21

Post by spzb »

hash0 wrote: post #16
spzb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 10x Centaur doesn't exist. They're just ten times as fast at creating tech debt.

I wouldn't consider myself an SWE, just an amateur programmer, so this is an honest question: In your opinion, is there such a case where the usage of AI in software engineering has either sped up the dev time or improved product reliability (or even both)?

It can churn out boilerplate but we already had templates to do that.

It can translate one language into another but we already had transpilers for that.

It can find bugs quickly but we already had static analysis. It also generates many plausible looking false positives.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#22

Post by rerdavies »

spzb wrote: post #20
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so intriguing to me how confidently people state this. Millions of programmers out there, and you're saying there's not even a 1% chance that a single one of them is moving 10x faster?

Faster != more productive.

Written by a human != correct.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#23

Post by baggy_trough »

spzb wrote: post #15
hash0 wrote: post #8

Seems like the need for a support group depends on whether the recent advent of LLMs in your specific workplace has led you to become a Centaur ("I'm now a 10x SWE") or a Reverse Centaur ("this is rapidly sucking the joy this job once held for me"). So, yes, there is very definitely a need for this as there are definitely people seeing themselves cast as the latter.

The 10x Centaur doesn't exist. They're just ten times as fast at creating tech debt.

I don't know if it's 10x, but there's definitely a huge acceleration in productivity. Attempts to deny that are basically just cope, or perhaps from people not using the tools correctly.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#25

Post by hash0 »

baggy_trough wrote: post #23
spzb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 10x Centaur doesn't exist. They're just ten times as fast at creating tech debt.

I don't know if it's 10x, but there's definitely a huge acceleration in productivity. Attempts to deny that are basically just cope, or perhaps from people not using the tools correctly.

If I may ask: In what areas have you found the most acceleration in productivity? For me as an enthusiastic amateur programmer (whose enthusiasm is, arguably, greater than my technical abilities) the only reliable and sustainable way to use AI in building software is to treat it like an exceptionally knowledgeable (though not perfect!), infinitely patient tutor that guides me through programming problems I run into. The minute I relinquish control and let it just write code for me I am doomed because AI cannot fix its own mistakes in anything of medium complexity or above - and then I have to dig down and try to understand code I haven't written which is, in my opinion, worse than having had to write it myself in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#27

Post by baggy_trough »

hash0 wrote: post #25
baggy_trough wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's 10x, but there's definitely a huge acceleration in productivity. Attempts to deny that are basically just cope, or perhaps from people not using the tools correctly.

If I may ask: In what areas have you found the most acceleration in productivity? For me as an enthusiastic amateur programmer (whose enthusiasm is, arguably, greater than my technical abilities) the only reliable and sustainable way to use AI in building software is to treat it like an exceptionally knowledgeable (though not perfect!), infinitely patient tutor that guides me through programming problems I run into.…

It's very good for bug fixes. I paste the log into the agent, and it has a good chance of suggesting the fix. I have to review it, but it has been a big time saver.

For new code, I treat it like a very knowledgeable mid level engineer who has a lot of patience to search the code base. We make changes a step at a time and I review them carefully and have it make changes I want. It's still a lot faster than doing it myself.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#28

Post by aquatica »

I'm feeling the same. I'm 21, basically just started my career.

Nothing felt better than writing code, and feeling proud of what I had built. Now I am being forced at work to use AI/LLMs because "it's faster" and I feel like my whole life, the career I fought for, has been sucked away.

Idk, might switch to driving trains, if they don't automate that too...

Re: Ask HN: Do we need a support group for developers alienated by LLMs?

#29

Post by sdevonoes »

hash0 wrote: post #8

Seems like the need for a support group depends on whether the recent advent of LLMs in your specific workplace has led you to become a Centaur ("I'm now a 10x SWE") or a Reverse Centaur ("this is rapidly sucking the joy this job once held for me"). So, yes, there is very definitely a need for this as there are definitely people seeing themselves cast as the latter.

We should rephrase the multipliers. We are not 10x whatever, we are x/10 cheaper now to the companies that hire us. That’s the correct frame. AI is not here to make the life of engineers better; AI is here for the delight of companies
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