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In Emacs, everything looks like a service

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Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#31

Post by cturner »

archargelod wrote: post #18
driva wrote: post #11

It's a shell not an operating system but the concept of a shell isn't commonly understood.

I see shell as an instrument through which you use other tools. In that sense, vi feels much more like a shell, because you have to use other standard unix programs with `:.!` for much functionality. Where Emacs comes with all bells and whistles included in one big distribution, much like an operating system.

Something that undermines the operating system angle is that emacs does not implement hardware drivers. All interaction with the computer go via system calls.

Norton Commander contains a text editor. Emacs operates at that level, whilst being reprogrammable.

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#32

Post by wtetzner »

charcircuit wrote: post #15
pjmlp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An operating system is a collection of things that don't fit into a language. There shouldn't be one" -- Dan Ingalls

Developers love building on platforms. Saying there shouldn't be platforms defies reality. Edit: Looking up the quote it seems to just be the person being pedantic in how they define operating systems.

Given his work on Smalltalk, I suspect he means that he prefers the line between language runtime and operating system to be erased, and they be the same thing.

I disagree though. While there are benefits to that approach, I feel like language innovation would be stifled to a certain degree.

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#33

Post by wtetzner »

kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

> Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point.

Why is that a valid point?

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#34

Post by masfoobar »

kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

At a company I work for, they are doing various changes (and control) over the software we install as we transition to a larger company. I believe they are using Microsoft Intune so they can allow/deny what can be installed.

I have not updated my laptop (or got a new one) because I am concerned they will not allow me to install or continue to use Emacs. Honestly, I can vision how that conversation goes:-

[manager]: Hi, so what is Emacs

[me]: Emacs is a text editor I use daily and makes me efficient in my work

[manager]: OK. I would like us to start using Visual Studio Code with the new projects coming up

[me]: Why? The consumption models we are using has no VSCode support, anyway.

[manager]: It would just be good if we are all using the same tools

[me]: It should not matter what we use as long as we work with git and deployment. If someone else is great with a different text editor why force them to use something else?

[manager]: (Looks up emacs)

[manager]: I think its best we stopped using it because it is not supported by Microsoft and we need to be careful with the dangers of open source.

[me]: OK. Should we contact other IT departments to replace any open source tools they use?

[manager]: Its just emacs is not verified software for the business. I think you are complicating things a little (tries to belittle me)

[me]: Emacs is my daily driver! If it goes, I will hand in my resignation!

* Manager is not there to understand or reason.. he is just following orders from other IT departments. *

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#35

Post by tom_alexander »

wtetzner wrote: post #33
kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

> Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Why is that a valid point?

In my case, I am a very senior member of my team so 25-50% of each day is spent helping and/or teaching teammates. In situations like that, it is useful to be deeply familiar with the tools that your teammates are using so you can tell them exactly what to do.

For example, if I'm teaching a new hire to set up their vscode it is not very helpful to tell them "now you need to activate the python venv". It is much more helpful to be able to tell them "Now we're going to activate the python venv. To do that, open your command palette and search for 'select python interpreter'".

In my personal life, I still exclusively use emacs (which I have scripted to auto-detect venvs) but I put up with using vscode at work to be a greater utility to my team.

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#36

Post by jhghbj »

masfoobar wrote: post #34
kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

At a company I work for, they are doing various changes (and control) over the software we install as we transition to a larger company. I believe they are using Microsoft Intune so they can allow/deny what can be installed. I have not updated my laptop (or got a new one) because I am concerned they will not allow me to install or continue to use Emacs. Honestly, I can vision how that conversation goes:- [manager]: H…

[dead]

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#37

Post by kleiba2 »

jerf wrote: post #28
kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

... how would they tell?

By looking at my screen? But also, why would you disobey a direct instruction from you super?

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#38

Post by ks6g10 »

masfoobar wrote: post #34
kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

At a company I work for, they are doing various changes (and control) over the software we install as we transition to a larger company. I believe they are using Microsoft Intune so they can allow/deny what can be installed. I have not updated my laptop (or got a new one) because I am concerned they will not allow me to install or continue to use Emacs. Honestly, I can vision how that conversation goes:- [manager]: H…

I scheduled my intune upgrade when I needed a week off for doing house moving stuff. I was told Emacs would work, didn't. Took them about a week before I could use it again.

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#39

Post by shakow »

tom_alexander wrote: post #35
wtetzner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Why is that a valid point?

In my case, I am a very senior member of my team so 25-50% of each day is spent helping and/or teaching teammates. In situations like that, it is useful to be deeply familiar with the tools that your teammates are using so you can tell them exactly what to do. For example, if I'm teaching a new hire to set up their vscode it is not very helpful to tell them "now you need to activate the python venv". It is much more…

At some point, shouldn't installing a venv be a pre-requisite to actually be hired as a dev?

Re: In Emacs, everything looks like a service

#40

Post by kleiba2 »

masfoobar wrote: post #34
kleiba2 wrote: post #27

I've been an Emacs user for over 25 years. But last year I switched employers and they won't let me use it even for tasks where it would absolutely shine. Their argument is that all team members should use the same tools, and I guess that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I failed to convince my employer to make everybody else switch to Emacs. So, now I'm using lots of one-purpose tools, one for each separate task, a…

At a company I work for, they are doing various changes (and control) over the software we install as we transition to a larger company. I believe they are using Microsoft Intune so they can allow/deny what can be installed. I have not updated my laptop (or got a new one) because I am concerned they will not allow me to install or continue to use Emacs. Honestly, I can vision how that conversation goes:- [manager]: H…

I worked briefly in public administration at one point in my career. I asked the admins the same thing, could I get Emacs installed on my machine. I got a bit concerned when the admin staff asked back: "What is Emacs?"
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