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Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

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Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#231

Post by rmunn »

msftgreed wrote: post #180
airstrafer wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I like the framing that there are three kinds of disability: permanent (I lost my arm in a motorcycle crash), temporal (I broke my arm and can’t use it for a while), and situational (I’m walking my dog so I can only use one arm for other things). Generally we only refer to someone with a permanent disability as “disabled” but in reality we are all disabled in various categories at different times of our lives…

And furthermore, ~15% of us are permanently disabled. So the percentages for temporary or situational disability rise even higher than that.

Where does that 15% number come from? Because I would have to assume it is using a very broad definition of disabled, which would include invisible disabilities. Certainly it's not true that 15% of the people I see are in a wheelchair, on crutches, missing a limb, obviously blind (e.g. walking with a cane), and so on. Even allowing for the fact that many people with disabilities stay home (often by necessity, sometimes by choice) rather than go out to run errands, still I doubt the number would get anywhere close to 15% if the definition only included the kinds of disabilities that are immediately obvious to anyone looking.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#232

Post by mrweasel »

dingaling wrote: post #204
msftgreed wrote: post #154

This is a great example of the curb cut effect -- a system designed for accessibility needs turns out to be useful in other contexts. Curb cuts were designed for people with disabilities, particularly veterans, and over time have become more and more standard. They help people who use wheelchairs, yes, but also people without disabilities like those with strollers, bikes, luggage, or small kids. We love to see access…

Dropped curbs also make progress more difficult for users using the pavement / sidewalk in a normal manner, since it introduces constrictions and trip hazards - which is a aspect of "curb cut effect" that is glossed over. Try going for a run along a pavement with frequent curb cuts, it's not pleasant. UK dropped curbs are somewhat less of a trip hazard but are so frequent in towns that you end up running with an ankl…

I've never really seen the dropped curbs as a hazard, but I guess it depends on how they are made and if they've been designed in from the start.

One "weird" complaint that I have with some accessibility features is that they mount things so that wheelchair users (and children) can operate them, e.g. a ATM mounted at groin height. I'm fairly tall so now I struggle to operate them or have to bend in unnatural angles. It's a small price to pay to make the world navigable to others, but almost daily I run into things that "are clearly designed by idiots". That is until I remember that the average person is below 180cm and right handed.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#233

Post by madeofpalk »

rmunn wrote: post #231
msftgreed wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And furthermore, ~15% of us are permanently disabled. So the percentages for temporary or situational disability rise even higher than that.

Where does that 15% number come from? Because I would have to assume it is using a very broad definition of disabled, which would include invisible disabilities. Certainly it's not true that 15% of the people I see are in a wheelchair, on crutches, missing a limb, obviously blind (e.g. walking with a cane), and so on. Even allowing for the fact that many people with disabilities stay home (often by necessity, sometim…

In fact, I would say it's probably too low! Like, how is prescription glasses to correct vision not an assistive device for a disability, like poor eyesight?

Honestly, what's the difference between a wheelchair and prescription glasses? Both are medical devices prescribed be a healthcare professional to assist with a physical impairment.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#235

Post by Gravityloss »

msftgreed wrote: post #154

This is a great example of the curb cut effect -- a system designed for accessibility needs turns out to be useful in other contexts. Curb cuts were designed for people with disabilities, particularly veterans, and over time have become more and more standard. They help people who use wheelchairs, yes, but also people without disabilities like those with strollers, bikes, luggage, or small kids. We love to see access…

One can try putting themselves sometimes in the position of an old person. Let's say you have a heavy steel rollator with grocery bags hanging from the handles. You've spent an hour going to the store in the summer heat and are quite exhausted. Now try to enter your building. There's locked door that needs to be held open, and two thresholds, one for the platform in front of the door and one for the door. You can't go over the first threshold with your rollator as that would prevent the door from being opened.

Now, I think the assumed way to get in is to keep the door open with your body while simultaneously lifting the rollator over both thresholds. This requires considerable strength, as you have to reach far with a heavy weight. Maybe an athlete could do it. Not an old exhausted person.

An old person needs to first leave the rollator out, open the door and make it so it stays open with a hook. Involves crouching and working with your hands close to the ground. Then lift the rollator one by one over the steps and go inside. Then come back out and close the door.

A foot operated door stopper and a few slopes could probably ease that up tremendously.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#236

Post by AnthonyMouse »

sparqlittlestar wrote: post #224
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the curb cut effect Which itself is kind of an interesting example of how these things should work, because the curbs are maintained by the government, so the compliance cost is getting paid by the taxpayer. Which is as it should be, because if something is to be required as a public benefit then it should be paid for out of public funds rather than as an unfunded mandate. Then thing like curb cuts continue to be a…

Doesn't your argument hinge on the fact that roads and sidewalks are public works anyway? The fact that compliance costs outprices some smaller companies rather shows that we as a society prefer to have accomodations, than live in one where such accomodations are only affordable to the affluent.

> Doesn't your argument hinge on the fact that roads and sidewalks are public works anyway?

Not at all, it just happens that we're already doing the right thing in that case because it wasn't possible to stick the wrong party with the bill.

> The fact that compliance costs outprices some smaller companies rather shows that we as a society prefer to have accomodations, than live in one where such accomodations are only affordable to the affluent.

It isn't the consumers being priced out, it's the producers. Which in turn causes the market to consolidate so that only the affluent can afford the big company monopolist's product anyway, and everyone else not only doesn't get accommodations but can't even afford the product or service anymore. Housing is a solid example of this; unfunded mandates make construction significantly more expensive and now millions of people can't afford a home.

Whereas if the taxpayer had to fund everything the government mandates, the mandates would have to account for the cost directly rather than hiding it inside the price of everything else, allowing people to make better choices about which ones are worth what they cost.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#237

Post by pheaded_while9 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #233
rmunn wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does that 15% number come from? Because I would have to assume it is using a very broad definition of disabled, which would include invisible disabilities. Certainly it's not true that 15% of the people I see are in a wheelchair, on crutches, missing a limb, obviously blind (e.g. walking with a cane), and so on. Even allowing for the fact that many people with disabilities stay home (often by necessity, sometim…

In fact, I would say it's probably too low! Like, how is prescription glasses to correct vision not an assistive device for a disability, like poor eyesight? Honestly, what's the difference between a wheelchair and prescription glasses? Both are medical devices prescribed be a healthcare professional to assist with a physical impairment.

What's the difference between glasses and an iron lung? Only the degree, severity, dependance, impact, consequence, social implication, dehumanization, and every other meaningful aspect!

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#238

Post by Forgeties79 »

kelipso wrote: post #178
Forgeties79 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re talking about the relative ineffectiveness of prohibition when it comes to teenagers. Generally speaking, they’re right. And the implication is therefore “don’t just blanket ban your way through screen time restrictions.” It’s a bit more nuanced than “one can get around the rules.

There are kids under 18 who drink and plenty under 21 who drink. Still a very good idea to ban under 18 drinking, and not a terrible idea to ban under 21 drinking. You can do this for lots of rules and laws. So yeah, they're basically saying "one can get around the rules" and nothing more than that. Therefore, there is no argument here, just a truism.

>relative ineffectiveness

>generally speaking

I felt like I couched and prefaced enough that somebody wouldn’t read this and go “this guy thinks you literally can’t ban teens from anything ever,” which is a ridiculous stance that no reasonable person would hold. I’ll be more explicit in the future.

Wholesale banning teens from screens is generally highly ineffective, like many but not all things people try to prohibit at that age. It leads to their seeking it elsewhere, perhaps in less safe environments and certainly with less guidance. It also means they won’t communicate about it with their parents, which has a lot of bad secondary effects.

Personally, if my kid experiences or witnesses something disturbing (or illegal/potentially dangerous) when they are young, I want to make sure the lines of communication stay open between us so I can help - or at least help them process it - when they need me.

TL;DR: banning smartphones when they can easily access them elsewhere is almost certainly going to end in a net negative. I am not saying we can’t ban anything. That is a ridiculous interpretation of my comment. I hope this clears that up for you.

Re: Buried Apple feature turns an iPhone into the perfect kids' dumb phone

#240

Post by ivlad »

walrus01 wrote: post #131
hans_castorp wrote: post #128

> Maps and satnav require a web connection. No they don't require a network at all. The only drawback if there is no network is that the initial finding of the position takes longer. And maps can be downloaded so that they are available offline. GPS receiver have been working without a "web connection" for ages (e.g. Garmins outdoor devices). I use my smartphone in "airplane" mode but GPS enabled when hiking. No prob…

At least on Android there's a fair number of apps like "osmand" which can download an entire state, province or country vector/map data, in their own semi-proprietary data format derived from public openstreetmap, for truly offline use anywhere you have a GPS signal. It'll even work on a phone that has no SIM card in it.

Native Apple Maps allow downloading map regions for offline use.
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