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Good Tools Are Invisible

gingerbill.org

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Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#21

Post by necrotic_comp »

ventana wrote: post #11

As a long time terminal user, it does not surprise me much when people just don't get it . The discussion often goes like this: — In a terminal, I can do so-and-so with a simple command — Well, in my FrobnicatorStudio, there's a shortcut Ctrl+Alt+So for that and this can go forever, going into pretty much useless comparisons like "in vim, I can delete 24 lines by pressing four keys" (no Sublime user ever needs that)…

Exactly this. The non-composability and non-standardization of GUI tooling is my main issue with them ; having the same toolkit available to solve every problem takes some doing but is ultimately more efficient.

That being said, it's a hard sell. It's not easy to grok the simplicity of the commandline tools until you've used them to solve what would otherwise be an intractable problem.

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#22

Post by latexr »

wtetzner wrote: post #10
bitwizeshift wrote: post #8

Well this is a take. It’s weird how much the author fixates on Vim being “visible” and implies multiple cursors and features in Sublime aren’t. Just because your brain is trained to not think about it anymore doesn’t make it any less visible. Multiple cursors aren’t a native feature in many tools, it is still something to learn how to use, let alone effectively — just as Vim key bindings are. Plus, vim is more than j…

What I find especially weird is that I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone describe vim as a puzzle that's fun to solve. The most common sentiment is that it has a learning curve, but ends up being worth it.

> I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone describe vim as a puzzle that's fun to solve.

Search for “vim puzzle” and you’ll find entire websites dedicated to it. Here’s a random one: https://vimventure.dev/

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#24

Post by blanched »

curtisblaine wrote: post #3

What is a good tool that's invisible? I'm genuinely curious. All tools I've used are either simple and heavily limited (so, not "invisible" because hard things are hard) or powerful but heavily specialized (so, not "invisible" because the learning curve is very evident). I feel the trade off is inescapable.

I think this is really insightful. Every "good and invisible" tool I thought of fit neatly into one of those two categories. Examples:

Powerful and specialized: automatic transmission, display/monitors

Simple and limited: syntax highlighting, deterministic autocomplete

The closest ones imo that bridge the gap: ssh, google search

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#25

Post by latexr »

bitwizeshift wrote: post #8

Well this is a take. It’s weird how much the author fixates on Vim being “visible” and implies multiple cursors and features in Sublime aren’t. Just because your brain is trained to not think about it anymore doesn’t make it any less visible. Multiple cursors aren’t a native feature in many tools, it is still something to learn how to use, let alone effectively — just as Vim key bindings are. Plus, vim is more than j…

Agreed. I used to enjoy vim macros, but ever since switching to Helix I reach for its multiple cursors all the time and barely use its macros. But that doesn’t mean multiple cursors don’t have a learning curve, I still need to think of he method to place the cursors in the right places.

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#26

Post by dgellow »

curtisblaine wrote: post #3

What is a good tool that's invisible? I'm genuinely curious. All tools I've used are either simple and heavily limited (so, not "invisible" because hard things are hard) or powerful but heavily specialized (so, not "invisible" because the learning curve is very evident). I feel the trade off is inescapable.

A tilling window manager is a fantastic tool that is close to invisible.

Though I don’t agree with the author. Visibility isn’t what matters, if you get comfortable with a specialized tool like a CAD software, or a game engine studio like Unreal, it’s not invisible at all but your brain will stop focusing on all the noise on your screen and you become pretty focused and productive. I live emacs, but Rider is also a fantastic editor.

Though I would love for things like LLMs to be way more out of your way, more “invisible”, more tool like. I hate the current UX of having to tame a patronizing, annoying fake human just to get things done the way I want them to be done

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#28

Post by cj »

sph wrote: post #17

I am afraid the author confuses familiarity with proof that his tools are better. The reality is that every tool has a trade off, and if a user prefers tool X compared to tool Y, it’s not because they are dumb, but likely they make better use of the affordances of that tool that only a power user would get. Give a developer 10 years each with vim, emacs and Sublime Text, they wouldn’t be so sure which is better. [1]…

> In the long run, every piece of software tends towards mediocrity.

Alternative view: Maybe that's okay, and greybeards know that.

Mediocre: "something of only moderate or ordinary quality"

Maybe we don't need the latest and greatest extraordinary technology when coding our next CRUD app.

Re: Good Tools Are Invisible

#29

Post by zaphar »

sph wrote: post #17

I am afraid the author confuses familiarity with proof that his tools are better. The reality is that every tool has a trade off, and if a user prefers tool X compared to tool Y, it’s not because they are dumb, but likely they make better use of the affordances of that tool that only a power user would get. Give a developer 10 years each with vim, emacs and Sublime Text, they wouldn’t be so sure which is better. [1]…

The article was not against a tool but a way of thinking. He didn't say anywhere that Sublime was better than Vim. He did say that he disagrees with the idea that a tools friction is a feature.

I can take his entire thesis and use it to show that vim is the perfect editor for me precisely because vim is invisible to me when I use it. In part this is because I turned vim into the tool I wanted. He turned sublime into the tool he wanted. His basic point however still stands. If you are making something for someone else to use then making that tool invisible to them is a powerful property.

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