Yet "the payment model is broken" and "some prices are absurd" can both be true
Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
371–380 of 536 posts
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Only the US society seems to be unable to find a solution. Unwilling. It's absolutely feasible to find a solution, as seen everywhere else in the world.
Unable to be willing. The combination of not knowing any better, political parties and media that don't care or exert a contrary pressure because they belong to billionaires, and powerful health sector businesses appears to be very effective.
The odds are stacked, but everyone still has free will and can choose to question what they’ve been told (especially what they’ve been told conflicts with what they can see with their own eyes).
Many choose ignorance because it’s comfortable.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Society should find a better way to pay for ambulances Society has this figured out, at least a decent solution that works until we find a perfect one. Only the US society seems to be unable to find a solution.
> Only the US society seems to be unable to find a solution. Unwilling. It's absolutely feasible to find a solution, as seen everywhere else in the world.
only parts of the US are unwilling
they happen to be in the Fortune 50, or top 10.
serious, go look at the F500 list and see how many of the largest, meanest companies in the US (and world) world also happen to be healthcare
if you wanna know why it's never gonna happen -- there is the list. they will spend more money than god on social media, bribes, and whatever else they need to keep the system the way it is
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
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In FY 2024, 0.3% of federal spending was by the US Agency for International Development ($21.7B) https://usafacts.org/explainers/what-does-the-us-government-... The war in Iran in MAY was reported at 29 billion dollars. It's probably been a bit more since then. Justifying stupid actions because you hate brown people isn't good for any of us.
> Justifying stupid actions because you hate brown people isn't good for any of us.
What a strange non sequitur.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the question is "Should ambulances be a thing?" though. It's a question of "Should someone in a situation where they need an ambulance have to balance the potentially life-threatening impact of saying no versus the potentially financially ruinous impact of saying yes?" The (fairly obvious) answer to that no one should be in that situation. It's horrible. Society should find a better way to pay for ambul…
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This shit is exactly the problem with capitalism and capitalists.
I've seen as long as I've been alive, "Communism killed hundreds of millions!!!" breathless claims.
When Capitalism kills, oh wait, it never does! Its always "bad individual choices", and never a review of the terrible for-profit system that caused it to begin with.
> Making poor medical choices that prioritize your own well-being over the financial solvency of those you care for, those around you, is a shitty thing to do.
And there it is. The system is highly predatory as intentioned. But the system is just part of capitalism, so its OK. But 'YOUR CHOICES' are the one that's bad, aka blame redirection.
And guess what? More and more people are seeing behind this facade that capitalism is good. Socialism is better. We're tired of being extracted, used up, and thrown away. Its why I'm also part of DSA. I'm done with this individual blame for systemic shit.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Surrounded by the barbarian warmonger nations of Canada and Mexico, the US has to increase its military budget to close to a trillion to pay for wars it definitely hasn’t been single-handedly starting since the 1970s while the USAID budget which is 5% of the military’s which tries to eradicate tuberculosis and malaria needs to go. Makes total sense.
You're arguing against a point I didn't make.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#377He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…
I think your department is probably closer to what people imagine ambulance billing looks like
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s the cost of supplies used during transport. Also the cost of maintaining potential supplies like blood even if they go unused. EMTs may make $23 but they are also getting benefits and have other overhead, making their real hourly cost probably closer to $50/hr minimum. There’s insurance, which I bet is out the wazoo expensive for ambulance. Ambulances have to be maintained and I would guess have much more reg…
Medical supply costs for transport are very small. The labor overhead costs are overhead. Insurance is included in the estimate. A plumber charges you $200 to come to your house, it costs the plumber $20 to come to your house. The latter value is what we're discussing here.
If I charge $163 an hour for an electricians time, the cost to my job for one hour without material is between $130-140 depending on who it is. It only costs the plumber $20 if his time is free, which it isn’t.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Society should find a better way to pay for ambulances Society has this figured out, at least a decent solution that works until we find a perfect one. Only the US society seems to be unable to find a solution.
And the US also pays a TON of tax dollars to a broken, overregulated system. IIRC if you look at the cost of Medicaide, Medicare, VA, and other federal and state spending it's the same as most other countries per capita or as a percent of GDP. The US taxpayer pays about as much as Canadians to fund their public system, then pays the same amount again for private cover since it's not universal. No I'm not making a typ…
Most doctors and nurses are not overpaid.
Certain specialities probably are overpaid (orthopedics), but others like pediatricians or general practitioners usually aren’t.
And nurses!? From the nurses I know they are underpaid for what they deal with.
The ones making loads of many are willing to travel around the country and uproot their life once or more every year. Not exactly a lifestyle without its drawbacks.
Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive
#380He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…
I had an accident where I had a concussion and other injuries that put me in a lot of, and the people I was with called an ambulance for me, and I wasn't really in a state to decline, but if I had been, and knew how much it would cost, I would have. The ambulance ride was, of course, out of network. As were some of the doctors that treated me once I got to the hospital. It was the first time I dealt with a major medi…
This is exactly the part that makes "you can always refuse" feel a bit theoretical