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EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#21

Post by amelius »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #19
amelius wrote: post #4

And what about the addictive design of advertisements that keeps us hooked on consuming more and more stuff? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/382310867_Methods_o...

Online advertisements should be forbidden as a whole. The attention-stealing and engagement-maximising internet with all it horribly effects only exist, due to advertising. And we know that the world without online ads is perfectly possible and livable, since we all lived through 1996.

Yeah, but why don't we ever hear any MEPs talk about it like that?

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#22

Post by whiplash451 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

Forcing social media apps to have a less addictive design is a much better way to protect young people's brains than a social media age limit is (and frankly adults need help here too).

I am with you and wish you were right, but good luck forcing Meta to change the key dark design patterns of their products (correctly identified by the regulators as "highly personalised recommendations, autoplay and infinite scroll")

This is a step in the right direction, though. It will be a long journey.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#23

Post by pembrook »

kittikitti wrote: post #17

This is welcome news but I have several friends, family members, or acquaintances that are addicted to social media and have to take psychiatric medication for it. The trouble is, and I'm not sure if the algorithm incentivizes it, but they don't take their pills. They don't even take multivitamins because of whatever idiotic misinformation they're being fed. It becomes a positive feedback loop and anything I and othe…

> are addicted to social media and have to take psychiatric medication for it.

I’m sorry but this is just not real.

There’s not a single non-quack doctor who will recommend psychiatric medication for “social media addiction,” which is not a real thing and pretty much all of the recent academic literature proves as much.

If your doctor is suggesting medication for social media use, you either have much deeper underlying mental health issues, or you need to find a new doctor ASAP and report them for malpractice.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#24

Post by testing22321 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

Forcing social media apps to have a less addictive design is a much better way to protect young people's brains than a social media age limit is (and frankly adults need help here too).

Forcing alcoholic drinks to have a less addictive product is a much better way to protect young people’s brains than an alcohol age limit is (and frankly adults need help there too).

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#25

Post by [deleted] »

khurs wrote: post #15
flumpcakes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing was ever said about the addictive design of mainstream TV - because then the rulers controlled the message being streamed into the brains of the population. More outlandish conspiracy theories on hackernews... You are in fact wrong - see the myriad of rules advertising, especially what can be advertised on children's TV. What messages are not being allowed to be 'streamed into the brains of the population'…

Speaking from the UK, the state controls the media. There are rules that a few select channels like BBC have to be prominently placed (I.e. Channel 1-4 reserved for them) which means any rival News service is disadvantaged. And presently they are passing new laws to force Youtube and similar to change algorithm's to also make certain UK content providers prominent. UK Media know what they can and cannot talk about- f…

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#26

Post by Frieren »

whiplash451 wrote: post #22
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

Forcing social media apps to have a less addictive design is a much better way to protect young people's brains than a social media age limit is (and frankly adults need help here too).

I am with you and wish you were right, but good luck forcing Meta to change the key dark design patterns of their products (correctly identified by the regulators as "highly personalised recommendations, autoplay and infinite scroll") This is a step in the right direction, though. It will be a long journey.

> good luck forcing Meta

When I was a kid there were fines for factories that polluted water. Most of the time they were not found out, and when they did they just paid the fine that it was cheaper than to solve the problem.

Regulations changed, factories that polluted water got closed until they fixed the problem. Most factory owners fear the regulation, they are extremely pro-active to avoid breaking the law because the consequences are not worth it. (This trend reversed a decade ago when punishments started to be less harsh and government became more pro-business using the euphemism for corrupt)

It is possible to reign in Meta. Parents should be angry enough to bring governments down for letting tech treat their children as products. When citizens are angry change happens and becomes unavoidable.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#27

Post by chk84us »

logological wrote: post #20
chk84us wrote: post #11

Only tangentailly related, but, there is an option in Instagram to reset your algorithm. I highly recommend this if you find yourself doom-scrolling. Not sure if it's also in FB on account of me not having an account there.

Where, exactly? I browsed through the account settings and didn't see anything obviously relevant. (Could be that whatever option you're talking about is available only to mobile users, whereas I only ever visit Instagram on a desktop.)

Not sure about desktop, but on mobile it is under Settings and activity -> (What you see) Content preferences -> Reset suggested content.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#28

Post by carlosjobim »

piva00 wrote: post #7
carlosjobim wrote: post #3

Nothing was ever said about the addictive design of mainstream TV - because then the rulers controlled the message being streamed into the brains of the population. It is precisely on Facebook and Instagram where you find the only popular movements against the current order in Europe, and the citizen journalists who expose and scrutinize the powers. It's a giant political threat towards those in power. So, how do we…

I don't follow, the argument is against the addictive design of the feed algorithms, not the information being shared per se. Nothing in this is geared towards curtailing platforms like social media to exist, it's trying to curtail the design of psychological manipulation for "engagement". Ragebait is the most common case, it makes people interact with content if it enrages them; another common case is to feed kids w…

> Ragebait

Tell me exactly what you mean by "ragebait". Shouldn't things that make people angry be reported on? Should they be swept under the rug? I'm kind of tired of hearing this word being used, without a good explanation.

Regarding kids, they shouldn't have uncontrolled access to the Internet, and that's a parenting problem. Just like a parent letting their kid drive their car or drink his whiskey.

> I can't see how these platforms' current practices need to be defended, what is your reason for doing that?

Some of their practices are good, some are bad. People addicted to TV have existed for decades. It's been a trope forever, the old lady spending her day glued to the TV. Hundreds of millions of people live like this even currently. And just like most people today are a little bit addicted to social media, everybody was a little bit addicted to TV. The evening news broadcast was a very important part of their day.

So yes, I think the reason why the people in power are more interested in throttling social media than traditional media - even though they both share the same addiction problem - is because the people in power have much less control over it than they did with traditional media.

As for ulterior motives, this is Hacker News, so I fully expect you to believe that I'm secretly a Russian spy, Iranian drone operator, AI bot, Mark Zuckerberg, neo-nazi, scientologist, jew, Elon Musk and bio-lab operator.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#29

Post by bix6 »

testing22321 wrote: post #24
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

Forcing social media apps to have a less addictive design is a much better way to protect young people's brains than a social media age limit is (and frankly adults need help here too).

Forcing alcoholic drinks to have a less addictive product is a much better way to protect young people’s brains than an alcohol age limit is (and frankly adults need help there too).

What’s your point? We do this.

NA beer now exists. Beer and wine places can’t sell liquor. Alcohol sales aren’t 24/7 in many places.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#30

Post by khalic »

pembrook wrote: post #23
kittikitti wrote: post #17

This is welcome news but I have several friends, family members, or acquaintances that are addicted to social media and have to take psychiatric medication for it. The trouble is, and I'm not sure if the algorithm incentivizes it, but they don't take their pills. They don't even take multivitamins because of whatever idiotic misinformation they're being fed. It becomes a positive feedback loop and anything I and othe…

> are addicted to social media and have to take psychiatric medication for it. I’m sorry but this is just not real. There’s not a single non-quack doctor who will recommend psychiatric medication for “social media addiction,” which is not a real thing and pretty much all of the recent academic literature proves as much. If your doctor is suggesting medication for social media use, you either have much deeper underlyi…

Really? Would you mind pointing us to all that academic literature?

And compulsive behaviour is definitely something that medication can help with.

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