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Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

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Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#291
post #245

Huh. Just want to point out that one of the main reasons we're using google apps at my company is that I use google apps for hosting my personal email. When it came time to make a decision on that, and I am the one who makes that decision, I chose google apps because it was already familiar to me. Poor choice, imho. I'm curious what the actual overhead is for people like me. I have 1 account (as in: 1 email address)…

> Microsoft's equivalent offering is free:

Something we should all be learning from this is that it's free for now.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty pessimistic view. Customers are self-interested too: they want free content and services, but they also want absolute privacy, to ad-block everything, and generally cut off any possible revenue stream. This seems like it leads to a sort of local maxima where you produce the minimum quality required to drive users, with as little cost as possible. By cutting off ad-supported free users, Google is atte…

by cutting off free users they just opened themselves to getting undercut by a smaller company that can offer fewer, cheaper, targeted options. I just wanted an email for my domain and that's not worth 50 bucks a year. I'll just set up my own email system at this point, call it a learning experience and never be exposed to the rest of whatever was in Google Apps.

I do this. It's not easy, but it's not as bad as most of the comments here would lead you to believe. If you have the wherewithal to run things on a server it's definitely within reach, albeit probably not a cost-effective way to spend your time.

Let me make a few recommendations. I'm not a sysadmin by trade but I know a few things you can do that will improve your lot in life running mail.

- Postfix and Dovecot. They have the right combination of ease of use, power and security. Don't overconfigure; try to get it working with basic settings first and then evolve it towards what you dream of rather than setting out to configure it that way first.

- SPF and DKIM. I have no trouble getting messages to Gmail and I think this is part of why.

- Make sure your hosting provider is not huge and very high quality. I chose RootBSD because they're small but highly technical. If you have a lot of spare cash, iNetU are quite good and sometimes help with FreeBSD. The larger or crappier the host is, the more likely you'll wind up in blacklisted IP space. (BSD hosting companies tend to be smaller and more technical, and BSD is great software, so I'd recommend that if you're interested.) Getting off a blacklist isn't a lot of fun and it's not hard to wind up on one, but I find being on a discriminating host is a good preventative measure.

- Rely on IMAP. If you want webmail, try and find one that is really just an IMAP frontend. I tried and liked Roundcube a while back; these days I have IMAP clients everywhere so I don't know what the new hot stuff is, but IMAP is fantastic.

- I strongly recommend you get an account with DNSReport.com. Their software can detect most of the DNS problems you can get yourself into that wreak havoc with mail. Odds are good you'll be doing a lot more DNS than before, it's a great tool to have in the toolbox.

- Stay on top of your security updates. I recommend running sshguard and whatever other security software/IDS/firewall type stuff you can stand. Make sure you're not giving out a bunch of shell accounts with root on this server. Seems obvious, but people forget or get lazy. FreeBSD will email you a security message every day; if something like that isn't coming your way, consider trying to set it up. It tells me, among other things, who tried to log into the server, how many times they failed, what their IP was, and lots of other stuff.

There are a number of nice upsides to running your own mail server.

- Email can be hooked up to the database various ways.

- Automatic emailing for free (keep an eye on it).

- Scripted email handling for free (Procmail etc).

- Get system-generated messages emailed (Nagios/monit etc., login/sudo failures, etc.)

- Advanced forwarding/wildcard accounts.

Anyway, I hope you do give it a shot despite the nay-saying. Cost-effective? No, but it's a blast, and many of the upsides would be hard to replicate with Gmail. Of course the web mail UI will be worse. Tradeoffs.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by cutting off free users they just opened themselves to getting undercut by a smaller company that can offer fewer, cheaper, targeted options. I just wanted an email for my domain and that's not worth 50 bucks a year. I'll just set up my own email system at this point, call it a learning experience and never be exposed to the rest of whatever was in Google Apps.

>I'll just set up my own email system at this point, call it a learning experience and never be exposed to the rest of whatever was in Google Apps. And? Free users threatening to leave are hilarious (even better when they campaign against ad targeting and AdBlock everything). Google's decision pretty clearly signals that users like you aren't worth it to the company any more than Google Apps are worth $50 to you. Don…

I use Google Apps because I want to use GMail, but with my own domain. That's it.

I'm not an enterprise. I don't need more support than regular GMail users. I don't have special needs, like managing what services are allowed. I just don't want a @gmail.com address.

I see people here defending this move, but think of how services like Google+ make mandatory an email address that's managed by Google. That email address will now have to be a @gmail.com address for regular users. Now think of how you can register with any email address on Facebook or Twitter, an email address which becomes your online ID.

By using your own domain with your own email address, if the email provider interrupts the service for you, you can always change your MX records and recover all the accounts that rely on that address. That's not something you can do with a @gmail.com or a @yahoo.com or a @hotmail.com address. If Google cuts off your access for some reason (like in case they find out you're under 18 or some bullshit) or if they delete your account by accident (hey, shit happens), then at the very least your online identity is not lost.

Freeloading is not the issue for me. I am already a paying Google customer in other ways (I buy stuff from Google Play, I pay for Google Drive storage, etc...) and I would happily pay them $50 per year anyway. The bigger issue is that using any Google service requires a Google email account, with Google Apps being a mild remedy for that.

How can I encourage people to use Google's services now? Not mentioning that 2 businesses are now paying customers of Google Apps, because of my freeloading and my recommendations for it.

Also, WTF is it with Google and raising prices? Companies are usually cutting prices down, while they are raising them. This also makes it an issue of trust - usually when I subscribe to services, I expect prices to go down, not up, otherwise I cannot trust it. My trust in Google is eroding right now.

What next? Make Chrome and Android proprietary with a yearly subscription for users? Lots of pesky freeloaders out there.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to run my own one-user email system. The hosting alone cost $240 a year. And I had to spend a lot of time configuring exim4 (and spamassassin and clam-av), figuring out which email indexer to use, setting up offlineimap, running cron jobs to archive mailing lists, coercing a friend to run a secondary MX for me, etc., etc. I didn't enjoy it all. And no matter what I did to reduce spam, about 10 messages a day a…

All you need is a forwarding service to forward the incoming mail to your gmail account, as regular personal gmail can handle sending out email with a different from address. No exim4, no spamassassin, no clam-av, no figuring out which indexer to use, or any of that. Just a forward on the incoming mail.

Expanding on your post.

It's pretty easy actually but when authorizing GMail to add a new sender address it usually mails a verification code to that address. Which, in this case would come back into the same Gmail inbox.

So if you have a X@Y.Z forwarding to A@gmail.com, then the verification code would be sent by gmail to X@Y.Z, which in turn, due to your forward settings, would redirect all mail to A@gmail.com.

The difference is that when sending mail from your Gmail.com inbox as opposed to the Google apps inbox for X@Y.Z is that when you send a mail via gmail (even if you fake the sender), the signed-by field will contain "gmail.com". On the other hand, Google apps for domains will set the signed-by field value to "Y.Z" (which would be your domain name).

As far as I know, this is the only difference. In Gmail, you can even set the default sender-address as your custom domain address so you don't need to set it everytime you reply to/compose new emails. And, unless you think/feel that signed-by: domain.name is cool, you're not really missing anything.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by cutting off free users they just opened themselves to getting undercut by a smaller company that can offer fewer, cheaper, targeted options. I just wanted an email for my domain and that's not worth 50 bucks a year. I'll just set up my own email system at this point, call it a learning experience and never be exposed to the rest of whatever was in Google Apps.

I used to run my own one-user email system. The hosting alone cost $240 a year. And I had to spend a lot of time configuring exim4 (and spamassassin and clam-av), figuring out which email indexer to use, setting up offlineimap, running cron jobs to archive mailing lists, coercing a friend to run a secondary MX for me, etc., etc. I didn't enjoy it all. And no matter what I did to reduce spam, about 10 messages a day a…

I used to run my own one-user email system. The hosting alone cost $240 a year.

Why? I have two VPSs with the main and backup SMTP servers and with continuous replications of emails between them and I pay less than half. Not to mention they double as web servers, IRC bouncers, etc.

And no matter what I did to reduce spam, about 10 messages a day always made it through.

I probably never get the same traffic as you do, but to me the best decision I made was enabling catch-all and using different addresses for each service out there.

In my case, spammers only send to three types of addresses:

- Random (jumble of numbers and letters@mydomain): very easy to block with a couple of programming lines.

- Fake but plausible (support@, bob@): just blacklist them once.

- Leaked (from websites and such): same as above, nuke it. Only happened to me once.

All in all, I never had to set up SpamAssassin or deal with dropped emails because of untrusted sources. Blocking by destination is much cleaner.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people pay more than $50 (or even $100 or $200) a year for far less useful services than a managed collaboration suite with full support. To put it in perspective, Netflix costs ~$108 a year. People have no issues spending $4 a day on a latte, but just 13 lattes costs more than a year of Google Apps. A single latte or a big mac meal at mcdonalds costs more than an entire month of google apps for you.

I always hate these comparisons because they have no basis in reality. Food, drugs, and sex are basic human drives. You can't compare them to something as ephemeral as email.

That's not true. Communication(what email is for) is a basic need. Consider how much you spend on your mobile phone every year.

Re: Google Apps stops accepting free sign-ups

#300
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by cutting off free users they just opened themselves to getting undercut by a smaller company that can offer fewer, cheaper, targeted options. I just wanted an email for my domain and that's not worth 50 bucks a year. I'll just set up my own email system at this point, call it a learning experience and never be exposed to the rest of whatever was in Google Apps.

Will your own email system have 99.9% uptime, two-step authentication, an amazing web interface, blazing speed, and IMAP/Exchange/POP3 access?

Basically GMail only has the two-step authentication. The uptime is worse than that, the web interface is not that great, it is slow and interoperates poorly with IMAP/Exchange/POP3 access.
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