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Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

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Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#121

Post by walthamstow »

esskay wrote: post #83
pjmlp wrote: post #63

> Apple's Mac mini and Mac Studio have become the machines of choice for running AI agents, according to Doug Brooks, Apple's senior product manager of Apple silicon. This is mostly an US phenomenon, no Mac mini nor Mac Studio around here. Only Thinkpads and Macbooks laptops talking to hyperscalers.

Around where? They're pretty popular for it in the UK right now given our obscene energy pricing as they end up being one of the best low power options for local llm. If you're not in the local llm space you obviously wouldn't see it. It's like saying Tennis isnt popular around here then admitting you dont frequent a tennis court so wouldn't even know.

So, when you said pretty popular, you meant in the local LLM space, which is a niche of a niche.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#122

Post by lanyard-textile »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #68
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cannot imagine a personal computing usage which can justify a 10k machine For me, the privacy pitch wins. I have a friend visiting, however, who spends like $2,400 with Anthropic every year. That's a solid ROI even if the thing becomes obsolete after a couple years. (I'm still on my 2020 MacBook Pro. I love it and will be sad when I have to replace it.)

> That's a solid ROI even if the thing becomes obsolete after a couple years. How can that be a solid return on investment? There's no model you can run locally to have frontier model level performance. Also who spends 2.4k yearly for personal AI usage, like what's the usecase? If your friend is spending that money for his business then it's not personal computing.

That's the $200/mo subscription -- not uncommon :)

I do the $100/mo for myself, then about ~$200/mo for startup.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#123

Post by h2aichat »

dom3k wrote: post #99
Sebastian_09 wrote: post #89

What I’m not sure to understand is that if you want to just run Claude code or openclaw type software with llm apis or subscriptions (and not run local models) to benefit from a local file system and always-on capability for ‘second brain’ type of workflows, I guess you don’t need a Mac mini but can run it on a raspberry pi or an old laptop ? Does anyone have experience with that ?

...or any cheap VPS? I now do most of "second brain" things via pi harness with Opencode Go subscription, and it costs me like 20 bucks a year, with added benefit of "you can have tmux and open session realtime on whatever device".

[dead]

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#124

Post by theplumber »

Sebastian_09 wrote: post #89

What I’m not sure to understand is that if you want to just run Claude code or openclaw type software with llm apis or subscriptions (and not run local models) to benefit from a local file system and always-on capability for ‘second brain’ type of workflows, I guess you don’t need a Mac mini but can run it on a raspberry pi or an old laptop ? Does anyone have experience with that ?

I do exactly this. You can run the whole thing on a PI. I have actually installed asahi Linux on my Mac and I connect to it remotely so you can be sure I will never upgrade my Mac again because it’s already overbuilt.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#125

Post by HPsquared »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #62
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should or would companies not ramp up to eventually meet demand? Memory is a cyclical market that has historically rewarded conservatism [1]. Counterpoint: there is enough demand from enough capital-rich customers that they may be willing to shoulder the capital risk. [1] https://www.ldeepai.com/tech-hub/dram-industry-consolidation... Sorry for the slop link, it has a good chart from a solid source

I heard that China was spinning up DDR5 (but not HBM?) production in the next couple of years, with the hope of outcompeting Korea and Taiwan in the mid to long term.

It does seem like an opportunity on a silver platter for Chinese newcomers. Huge demand at the moment.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#126

Post by theplumber »

The issue with the Apple is that they didn’t really develop any competitive local AI machine. Their strategy/marketing falls flat when you ask them how exactly they implement AI: they buy it from Google cloud. In the future local AI may become a thing but that’s 4-5 years away. I count the 2q-4q and atrocious performance as “local ai” only for the enthusiasts crowd not for people doing competitive work.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#127

Post by wiether »

_glass wrote: post #112
Sebastian_09 wrote: post #89

What I’m not sure to understand is that if you want to just run Claude code or openclaw type software with llm apis or subscriptions (and not run local models) to benefit from a local file system and always-on capability for ‘second brain’ type of workflows, I guess you don’t need a Mac mini but can run it on a raspberry pi or an old laptop ? Does anyone have experience with that ?

it's only because you can send texts via imessage on a macmini. that's it.

Buying a new computer at +$500 just to have iMessage access feels insane to me.

OpenClaw supports all the mainstream (and free) chat apps like Discord, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram... None of them requiring a MacOS machine.

Is it a lack of knowledge from the users or do they really value iMessage integration that much?

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#128

Post by SoMomentary »

windex wrote: post #96
Sebastian_09 wrote: post #89

What I’m not sure to understand is that if you want to just run Claude code or openclaw type software with llm apis or subscriptions (and not run local models) to benefit from a local file system and always-on capability for ‘second brain’ type of workflows, I guess you don’t need a Mac mini but can run it on a raspberry pi or an old laptop ? Does anyone have experience with that ?

Yup, for openclaw and APIs you dont need a big PC. I run something lightweight on the RPI4 8gb. Many people run local LLMs which is where a mac is useful. Frankly I dont think you can beat the value of an openrouter subscription and API calls.

Why not go direct to the source instead of paying an extra 5.5%? Seems like it'd be trivial to have AI wire up connections to your preferred inference providers and save yourself some money over time.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#129

Post by egorfine »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20

Apple could probably sell a machine starting at $10,000 if they architected it as the sole place one’s Private Cloud Compute [1] ran. It would need a path to a $2,500 machine, I think. But this is a niche I don’t think another consumer-facing brand could do like Apple. [1] https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

Apple is quite hostile to professional users, so no.

Re: Apple Silicon Exec Explains Mac Mini AI Demand and On-Device Future

#130

Post by JumpCrisscross »

wongarsu wrote: post #77
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should or would companies not ramp up to eventually meet demand? Memory is a cyclical market that has historically rewarded conservatism [1]. Counterpoint: there is enough demand from enough capital-rich customers that they may be willing to shoulder the capital risk. [1] https://www.ldeepai.com/tech-hub/dram-industry-consolidation... Sorry for the slop link, it has a good chart from a solid source

For existing producers expanding capacity would be a risky move. But it's the perfect time for any newcomers to enter the market. Low yields and worse product don't matter as much right now, and by the time the market cools down you have everything dialed in and can compete on even ground

> it's the perfect time for any newcomers to enter the market

This is a good hypothesis. Curious if anyone has data on the failure rates of new entrants in semiconductors based on how frothy it was on founding.

On one hand, more demand makes selling easier. On the other hand, a shortage makes your input costs (consumable and capital) pricier.

EDIT: It seems like the 2 to 3 year lead time and a crowding effect from new entrants historically made booting up a fab into a boom a bad bet [1]. (The article argues, convincingly, that this time may be different.)

[1] https://www.uncoveralpha.com/p/every-memory-cycle-ends-the-s...

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