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Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

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Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#321

Post by Der_Einzige »

FireBeyond wrote: post #120
jjk166 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average ambulance transport costs $2,673 to provide I think this ignores the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Why does an ambulance transport cost thousands for the operator? This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. At first one might say that's flippant - obviously ambulances are specialized vehicles, and you have paramedics, and they need to get to locations quickly, and so forth, b…

> Typically an ems crew will be two paramedics. Average paramedic wage is about $23/hr. Paramedics and EMTs aren't the same thing. Private ambulance crews running "dual ALS (advanced life support, i.e. paramedics)" are _exceptionally rare_. Normal staffing is Paramedic and EMT, and most often there are crews that are dual EMT. Average EMT wage is actually about $18/hr (and in much of the south you can be looking at $…

The fact that so many people some gleeful to work as EMT despite the shit pay is just insane!

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#322

Post by Der_Einzige »

SoftTalker wrote: post #161
Spooky23 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ambulance crews are almost never 2 paramedics. Most often they transport and do BLS only. If they are it’s because a local government is paying for that service. EMTs make minimum wage. The people who own ambulances typically have a little cartel like business in a region and print money. They refuse to sign insurance contracts so they are almost always out of network and will not accept direct insurance payments. Wh…

Nobody makes (federal) minimum wage these days. McDonalds employees make double that.

You haven’t been to the shithole south if you believe this.

There plenty of idiots there making 2 dollars an hour and tips and thinking they’re doing well because “at least my CoL is low!”

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#323

Post by Esophagus4 »

grogenaut wrote: post #207
onion2k wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the question is "Should ambulances be a thing?" though. It's a question of "Should someone in a situation where they need an ambulance have to balance the potentially life-threatening impact of saying no versus the potentially financially ruinous impact of saying yes?" The (fairly obvious) answer to that no one should be in that situation. It's horrible. Society should find a better way to pay for ambul…

Is this the common cost or is this an outlier blog story that hit it off. Talk real data to me. I don't get excited about any individual anecdote (unless it's me personally of course). No people shouldn't be bankrupted for a short cab ride that's not needed. I'm not arguing that.

He covered that in the article fairly thoroughly. Did you read it?

The anecdote illustrates the issue then he dives into the analysis.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#324

Post by mcv »

thayne wrote: post #235
grogenaut wrote: post #170

He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…

I had an accident where I had a concussion and other injuries that put me in a lot of, and the people I was with called an ambulance for me, and I wasn't really in a state to decline, but if I had been, and knew how much it would cost, I would have. The ambulance ride was, of course, out of network. As were some of the doctors that treated me once I got to the hospital. It was the first time I dealt with a major medi…

Can't you simply argue: I never agreed to this, so I'm not obliged to pay this?

Americans love to pretend that healthcare can somehow be a free market (it can't), but a free market requires voluntarily entering into a transaction. Costs that can be forced upon you without your agreement need to be tightly regulated and subject to clear caps.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#325

Post by ajuc »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #312
master_crab wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s a lightning rod only because some people get unnecessarily triggered by facts that don’t fit their world view.

There’s a thin line between satire, which can convince, and sneering, which can only turn off. John Oliver, unfortunately, does end up on the wrong side of it from time to time, and can (together with his core audience) be something of a bully when he does. I’d also be careful about his facts: they’re usually well-researched, but by the nature of the format he only ever presents those which fit his argument, and that…

The time for this debate was 100 years ago. Now only people who can't be convinced aren't convinced, so there's no point convincing.

So why not make fun of them? There's no downside.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#326

Post by ciclotrone »

Last year I had appendicitis in Italy, where I live. I called a cab to reach the nearest hospital, since I didn't feel so bad as warranting an ambulance. I got accepted, visited, transferred to the larger nearby hospital by ambulance, appendectomy, 4 nights stay, and I was provided with the drugs for the convalescence. When I was dismissed I took another cab back.

Total expense: ~25€ for the two taxi rides.

Very happy to pay my taxes, and very happy that when I don't need it myself, they go into financing the healthcare services for others that may or may not be able to pay out of pocket.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#327

Post by philipallstar »

bestouff wrote: post #296
master-lincoln wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what a government would be for. You vote neo-liberal, you get it... (I consider both the US democrats and republicans neo-liberal)

I think only the US consider the US Democrats as leftists.

[flagged]

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#328

Post by Esophagus4 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #321
FireBeyond wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Typically an ems crew will be two paramedics. Average paramedic wage is about $23/hr. Paramedics and EMTs aren't the same thing. Private ambulance crews running "dual ALS (advanced life support, i.e. paramedics)" are _exceptionally rare_. Normal staffing is Paramedic and EMT, and most often there are crews that are dual EMT. Average EMT wage is actually about $18/hr (and in much of the south you can be looking at $…

The fact that so many people some gleeful to work as EMT despite the shit pay is just insane!

Some of them are volunteers who do it because it’s about the calling to help their communities, not pay.

Some do it because they actually want to be firefighters but it’s helpful to be an EMT as well.

Others do it because it’s an easy entry point (in the US you only need a 3 month night course to be an EMT) in their medical career on their way to better paying jobs like MD and RN.

And yes, others are grizzled and burnt out making little money.

But mostly people do it because they want to help.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#329

Post by Der_Einzige »

cogman10 wrote: post #69
pclowes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect to have ambulance coverage across the entire United States. There is a lot of land with very few people. Choosing to live far away from others is also choosing to live far away from help. If a service is highly variable cost dependent and is unaffordable for the average individual to pay out-of-pocket it is unaffordable for the aggregate individual as well. There _should_ be s…

It's very often not a choice. But also, those rural areas are often the breadbaskets of the united states. Taking care of our farmers is important. Trying to frame it as a choice also misses a lot. It technically is, but you have to recognize there's a huge cost in uprooting your entire life and moving to a new location.

The farmers can go F themselves. US soybean industry destroyed by trump tariffs, all I see are news stories about the very same soybean farmers talking about voting for trump again despite the pain. Reap what you sow!

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#330

Post by Esophagus4 »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #188
somat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be telling to figure out why no startup is offering $400 ambulance rides and dominating on volume.

I for one would love to see a startup called say, "Trauma Team International" or "Docwagon"...

Ambulance.ai

(Shudders)

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