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Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

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Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#121

Post by Klonoar »

busterarm wrote: post #63
throwaway27448 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have an awful low bar for what is considered chiding, damn Then again, your very username implies an indulgence in viewing technology through the lens of fandoms which is... weird

I read the comment that they were referring to and it wasn't even constructive conversation in the thread. It was basically a complete derail to backdoor in a conversation about why they think everything should be in Rust. OpenBSD still uses CVS, C and Make because that's what works for them. They will continue to keep using C, Make and CVS but that enables them to be productive with the contributors that they have.…

“A complete derail” is doing some heavy lifting there.

This is a wide ranging discussion board, not the OpenBSD forums. That shit is fair game even if you don’t like it.

(It’s annoying, sure - because dev tribalism is the most played out thing in this industry - but overall the topic can be an interesting discussion point)

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#122

Post by vkazanov »

pjmlp wrote: post #119
vkazanov wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a huge Rust fan but the language did bring a few practical and useful innovations, while also keeping a focus on practice. And no, C++ just doesn't make the same things easy or clean. And no, "discipline and appropriate rules" were never enough.

The practical and useful innovations were invented else, Rust made them mainstream.

Yes.

The biggest innovation of Rust is bringing some of the good ideas from functional programming to low level programming. I'd also say that partially exposing data flow analysis to a proframmer is new.

Rust package management is quite good, and also not by any means an invention.

I am still not a fan of all the ugly macro programming systems and verbose syntax in the language.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#123

Post by Klonoar »

senderista wrote: post #44
rapind wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have definitely witnessed very specific cultures around languages I really like that I generally just don't vibe with. The author creates something brilliant, but there's a cadre of early adopters that shape a political and somewhat egotistical community that rubs me wrong. Once I spot them, I don't engage with the community. And it's not even that I disagree with the politics they espouse... I'm usually on the sam…

In the case of Ruby, the contrast between the early community pre-Rails and what came after is astounding. Partly comes down to the personality differences between Matz and DHH, I guess. I loved the community pre-2005 and had no interest in engaging with it afterward (although I used Rails for a few personal projects).

This example is one of the more striking cases and you could write a (light) novel on the history of how it changed.

You kind of had to be there for part of it, at least the early stuff though.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#124

Post by 9rx »

jdw64 wrote: post #56

Rust must be a big deal. Every post about programming languages seems to mention Rust. Even C++ articles bring up Rust, and Zig articles bring up Rust. I think it's because Rust has solved some really impressive problems. But at the same time, when I read interviews where people are so intensely conscious of Rust, I can't help feeling that they've come to see Rust as having solved the problems inherent in their own l…

Do you see any other examples of where technical excellence is attention grabbing? From my vantage point, when something does a great job at solving a problem better than everything else nobody spends their days trying to read about it, everyone quietly starts using it. It is undeniable that Rust gets mentioned a lot because any mention of Rust brings the clicks. It is a big deal in that sense. But something being used to compel readers into reading content suggests an emotional longing that isn't being satisfied by the technical reality.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#125

Post by latexr »

mountainriver wrote: post #17
skhameneh wrote: post #2

> I don’t like the Rust culture. There’s no better way to put it. This is just so weird to me, because I would say the same about Zig. I tried to get into Zig even chatted with Loris Cro when he was streaming. I was looking to explore what my Rust project could look like in Zig but there were features simply missing that I couldn't do without. The entire interaction was mostly about how bad Rust is and how I could ju…

I feel this way about most Hashi tools, they just seem massively overrated to me. Ghostty is fine I guess, I find it to be way buggier than iterm with a fraction of the features. Zig is fine, has some cool stuff, the community seems roughly the same as the rust, with again just way less features. The rest of the hashi tools are fine, I don’t really use any of them anymore. Vault was a big deal at some point I guess

You’re making it seem like fewer features is a negative, but that’s not always the case. Even for programming languages, I can think of how I semi-regularly see people lamenting that Swift got too complex, while praising Go for being a small language.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#126

Post by latexr »

fukaiall wrote: post #24
skhameneh wrote: post #2

> I don’t like the Rust culture. There’s no better way to put it. This is just so weird to me, because I would say the same about Zig. I tried to get into Zig even chatted with Loris Cro when he was streaming. I was looking to explore what my Rust project could look like in Zig but there were features simply missing that I couldn't do without. The entire interaction was mostly about how bad Rust is and how I could ju…

Well you only talked with one single person and judge that the Zig community culture sucks? I’ve seen so many dogmatic views of those Rust apostles here on HN and Linked who think Rust is the only valuable language and all the others - Python, Go, C++ (of course) - are rubbish. I am so fed up with those snobbish views of a few Rust lovers and as much as I love the language I want to avoid those ignorant fucks.

> Well you only talked with one single person and judge that the Zig community culture sucks?

In fairness, Loris Cro is “VP of Community at Zig Software Foundation” so if there’s someone to judge the community by, Loris has more weight than just about anyone (perhaps excluding Andrew Kelly).

Note I am not agreeing with your parent post, what I have seen from Loris and Andrew makes me interested in trying Zig.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#127

Post by nesarkvechnep »

tecoholic wrote: post #19

Man, these are the kinds of things that I am so happy to read. People who think and care deeply about what they do, take pragmatic decisions that appears right to them and explain why they do things the way they do. Very motivating. Literally moved me from the couch to the work desk .

Unfortunately, it made me even more sad because the project I'm working on now is complete trash. Every line outdoes the previous in the dumbest thing possible. Four years at the company and not a single greenfield project for me, only well established piles of... you get the idea.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#129

Post by samuell »

LoganDark wrote: post #114
cookiengineer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to derail the discussion, but the reason for me to leave the Rust ecosystem in favor of Go was also the implied culture. Experienced Go devs that stay inside the ecosystem try to write their libraries as "pure go" libraries with zero dependencies other than the upstream core libraries (or golang.org/x if needbe), which results in a very low maintenance ecosystem. This combined with the strong toolchain mak…

> And that's exactly the thing that somehow never happened in the Rust ecosystem. I always joke that the Rust ecosystem has more OpenGL bindings than developers, because there's just so many low quality bindings or wrappers out there that the ecosystem in result got too noisy to maintain. Rust seems to attract a lot of horizontal programming. I have done mainly that so far and I LOVE Rust for it. AIUI, horizontal pro…

As much as I'm put away by the dependency horror I've seen in many Rust projects, this is an interesting observation.

Re: Interview with Mitchell Hashimoto about Ghostty and Zig

#130

Post by echelon »

rustystump wrote: post #86
echelon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Rust will never be the dominant output by a country mile. It will be python and typescript.

> It will be python and typescript.

A waste.

This code will be high-defect and slow.

All of your LLM outputs should be Rust.

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