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Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

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Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#251

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

onion2k wrote: post #205
grogenaut wrote: post #170

He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…

I don't think the question is "Should ambulances be a thing?" though. It's a question of "Should someone in a situation where they need an ambulance have to balance the potentially life-threatening impact of saying no versus the potentially financially ruinous impact of saying yes?" The (fairly obvious) answer to that no one should be in that situation. It's horrible. Society should find a better way to pay for ambul…

[flagged]

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#252

Post by charcircuit »

Avicebron wrote: post #158
charcircuit wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me covered means that the ambulance will drive to your location.

Hey man, don't worry about it, this is an international forum, English can be difficult. You seem kind of like a more junior/early in your career guy so, I'm happy to help out and explain. Covered in this case means that they don't have to pay some third party to take that risk for them, they can just get the ambulance as part of the nominal fee everyone pays per year or whatever. When you outline a problem statement…

There is no need to be condescending to me and be arrogant despite you being ambiguous over which definition of the word you were using. You could simply end the conversation, realizing we were talking past each other but instead you decided to take jabs such as implying I am ESL, implying I am bad at English, and assuming I'm early in my career in order to attempt to belittle me.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#253

Post by moritzwarhier »

thayne wrote: post #235
grogenaut wrote: post #170

He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…

I had an accident where I had a concussion and other injuries that put me in a lot of, and the people I was with called an ambulance for me, and I wasn't really in a state to decline, but if I had been, and knew how much it would cost, I would have. The ambulance ride was, of course, out of network. As were some of the doctors that treated me once I got to the hospital. It was the first time I dealt with a major medi…

Treating medical care like this, similar to a racketeering scheme, should not be a thing anywhere.

Instead of punishing people for seeking medical care (or plainly requiring it), it would be preferable to have a robust protocol for rejecting patients that do not require care, whether at the hospital or before the ambulance ride.

For this, people would need to want medical care be a humanitarian right and basic pillar of a functioning society, not a business or a bureaucratic system to perform a selection process decreasing the life expectancy of less-affluent people.

Ironically, when there is free medical care and universal insurance, there are also perverse incentives. For example unneeded expensive procedures, prescribing patented, newer drugs where cheaper ones would work, providing ineffective or even detrimental services, etc.

But humanitarian values are out of fashion, because they were never achieved globally.

So the only right people care about increasingly is their right to own property.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#254

Post by djantje »

Its a collective emergency service, which can save lives.

If by law this service is required and you bill only the rides, you get this, high bills per ride.

It would be nice to see a chart of countries with cost of ambulance rides, cost for the patient and average response times.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#256

Post by keane »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #188
somat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be telling to figure out why no startup is offering $400 ambulance rides and dominating on volume.

I for one would love to see a startup called say, "Trauma Team International" or "Docwagon"...

Ambulnz by DocGo

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#257

Post by magic_hamster »

This was a fun read, however, I feel that the actual essence is quite thin.

It can be summarized in a short sentence: The cost comes from being always prepared with teams and equipment, and few privately insured riders subsidizes everyone else, getting very high surprise bills - this can and should be a shared community tax which would effectively allow free ambulance rides to almost everybody.

It's an excellently written post though. I suspect people read this author for the experience, more so than actual information. I just wonder if they should just do prose and go wild with their skill instead of coating a few predictable facts with so many layers of color.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#258

Post by [deleted] »

t-writescode wrote: post #210
FireBeyond wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex-paramedic and EMT, both with County Fire and private, there are absolutely those. But many-a-time, some of the blame falls on the physician. Medicare has, for one example, a lovely little form to fill out, just a few fields, mostly checks and multiple choice, to explain why the need for a "fully equipped BLS (or ALS) ambulance" was required, versus POV (private owned vehicle) or cabulance. The number of time…

> or cabulance I'm sorry, are insurance companies now demanding that people use Ubers to get to the hospital? ... do they reimburse those charges? Because wtf.

[deleted]

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#259

Post by tumdum_ »

altern8 wrote: post #237

I live in Poland and despite being Europe from what I understand they don't have socialized healthcare. You need to buy insurance from the government, or private (I have both). If you don't have it, you don't have a right to healthcare. Then, if you go to public doctors or hospital you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery. BUT, I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt from getting sick, or bein…

> they don't have socialized healthcare

You have free healthcare for children (up to 18 years old), pregnant women and registered unemployed. Moreover, any working person can (for free) add their spouse and parents. Plus people can apply for free health insurance if they have very low income.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#260

Post by altern8 »

orwin wrote: post #248
altern8 wrote: post #237

I live in Poland and despite being Europe from what I understand they don't have socialized healthcare. You need to buy insurance from the government, or private (I have both). If you don't have it, you don't have a right to healthcare. Then, if you go to public doctors or hospital you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery. BUT, I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt from getting sick, or bein…

I dislike sentences like 'you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery'. Depends on the exam or surgery. - Blood test: wait time (after your 12 hour fast) is likely 15-30minutes in most of Europe (even eastern Europe. I should know, I do one every 3 month). - pet-scan/x-ray: at most a few hours if your area is truly underserved, in my experience, less than an hour (but I needed it 4 times, so it mig…

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

What I meant with "you have to wait months" is that if you go with the government-provided doctors and processes, they put you on a list and you have to wait for your turn. Getting an exam done can take months, and you can wait years for surgery, unless your condition is life-threatening.

If you go to a private clinic, of course you can get test results the same day and schedule any surgery within days.

Most people who can afford it go the private route. I had to do that too, which kind of pissed me off since I pay a hefty amount each month for insurance and I still have to go to private clinics. BUT, using the public infrastructure is just too inefficient. To get blood exams at a reduced price I had to schedule an appointment with my GP (days in advance), she'd send me to a specialist (about 1 week wait to get appointment), then a specialist would give me the paperwork required to get SOME of blood tests I needed covered by my insurance.

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