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Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

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Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#241

Post by scbrg »

yamillove wrote: post #62
paxys wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that’s socialism!

[dead]

Foreigner from the socialist Nordics here, so perhaps I'm brain washed or something, but I don't get it. After some brief Googling it appears that you mean they have proposed a tax on a service that for some reason used to be tax-exempt.

Why was it tax-exempt? Why should it be?

What sets it apart from any other service where you pay someone to do something for you - such as cook you a meal, transport you somewhere or build you a house?

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#242

Post by thayne »

xp84 wrote: post #22

I tell this story every time ambulance costs come up because it might be helpful to anyone. I once lived in San Francisco in the mid-2010s. In SF, the SFFD operates the vast majority of ambulances in the city. As in, 80%+. I once had the need to go to the hospital urgently and called 911. The ambulance that showed up was SFFD. They transported me and I recovered safely. I then got a bill from them saying that my insu…

I had a very similar experience. Except unlike you I wasn't aware of that requirement at the time, and ended up paying all of it. I did complain to the insurance company that the amount I owed didn't seem right, and they told me it was my fault for using an out of network ambulance.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#243

Post by orthoxerox »

tbrake wrote: post #119
jjk166 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average ambulance transport costs $2,673 to provide I think this ignores the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Why does an ambulance transport cost thousands for the operator? This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. At first one might say that's flippant - obviously ambulances are specialized vehicles, and you have paramedics, and they need to get to locations quickly, and so forth, b…

> This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. We need a regulatory body that can fine people for making analogies this bad

People (like the guy from the article) literally take Uber rides instead of ambulances, so they are a reasonable substitute good in many cases.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#244

Post by rcbdev »

ethersteeds wrote: post #43
darth_avocado wrote: post #7

We’re all pretending this is an unsolvable problem when really most of the world has solved it by making ambulance (EMS) funding similar to fire and police departments. Somehow in any emergency I’ve seen, all three show up, often EMS before police or fire dept, and somehow that’s a service that has to be supplemented by insurance billings. The blog mentions it, but it’s one of those obvious things that somehow isn’t…

> most of the world has solved it by making ambulance (EMS) funding similar to fire... About 65% of the more than one million firefighters in the U.S. are volunteers, with nearly 19,000 fire departments being run completely by volunteers.

Yeah. In many countries, EMS is also heavily volunteer-based.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#245

Post by mgol94 »

altern8 wrote: post #237

I live in Poland and despite being Europe from what I understand they don't have socialized healthcare. You need to buy insurance from the government, or private (I have both). If you don't have it, you don't have a right to healthcare. Then, if you go to public doctors or hospital you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery. BUT, I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt from getting sick, or bein…

that's not true, access to the emergency medicine (and transport) is a constitutional right in Poland, you don't need NFZ coverage for that.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#248

Post by orwin »

altern8 wrote: post #237

I live in Poland and despite being Europe from what I understand they don't have socialized healthcare. You need to buy insurance from the government, or private (I have both). If you don't have it, you don't have a right to healthcare. Then, if you go to public doctors or hospital you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery. BUT, I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt from getting sick, or bein…

I dislike sentences like 'you still have to wait months for an exam or years for surgery'. Depends on the exam or surgery.

- Blood test: wait time (after your 12 hour fast) is likely 15-30minutes in most of Europe (even eastern Europe. I should know, I do one every 3 month).

- pet-scan/x-ray: at most a few hours if your area is truly underserved, in my experience, less than an hour (but I needed it 4 times, so it might be small sample size).

Specialists will make you wait for sure if it doesn't sound life-threatening for deeper exams, and especially exams that requires surgery, but the only example I have on hand is my mother's boyfriend who got his in less than two weeks, and his cancer removal surgery was planned within 3 months after the tumor biopsy (you need to change your diet at least a month before surgery to prevent complications and improve healing, so the true delay caused by wait time is ~2 month). They also explicitly said that if his cancer was more aggressive they would have given him a month to prepare according to my mom.

But yes, in Europe especially, convenience surgery can take a year (my intern lips and teeth took 17 months) (and you pay a bit out of pocket), when in the US you can be done within days.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#249

Post by geoffmunn »

thayne wrote: post #235
grogenaut wrote: post #170

He refused to go in an ambulance the first time. He could have refused the second ride. You can refuse transport or medical care at any time as long as you are able to make rational decisions. As an EMT if you're A&Ox4, alert to time, place, person and event, you make the choices. You do sign a release so we have proof we didn't abandon you, but you make the choice. If we move you without your approval, it's kidnappi…

I had an accident where I had a concussion and other injuries that put me in a lot of, and the people I was with called an ambulance for me, and I wasn't really in a state to decline, but if I had been, and knew how much it would cost, I would have. The ambulance ride was, of course, out of network. As were some of the doctors that treated me once I got to the hospital. It was the first time I dealt with a major medi…

As someone who is not American, $10,000!!!!!! That's hard to conceive where I live. We even have a specifically free ambulance service here.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#250

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

pjc50 wrote: post #230
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the California law requiring the insurance company to act as a sin-eater here? They seem to be the only people you were frustrated with, even though they are not the ones who charged you $1000.

The insurer is being forced to act as an insurer, by paying the $1000 they're supposed to cover.

Did they know they were supposed to cover it, or did the provider make a billing error? Even if there's no error, why is a government-run ambulance service making this the patient's problem, if the law says that they definitely have to pay? Why did it cost $1000 anyway, is that a reasonable price?
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