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The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

mwi.westpoint.edu

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Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#361

Post by xp84 »

general1465 wrote: post #76
xp84 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an odd declaration and maybe based on Rus/Ukraine. But Ukraine is doing better now than in the first week of the “Special Military Operation” due to having a lot of rich allies who have (in fits and starts) given them a lot of money and gear, and due to a Russia which has stretched its military and economy to the breaking point. By contrast, Iran’s only allies are its terrorist affiliates in Lebanon, Gaza, and t…

> Anyway, the US and Israel can keep degrading Iran’s military and “government” by dropping bombs (or better, drones) on them every week for a decade and it won’t really be a big deal for the former. I disagree. The huge problem here is that USAF is showing how they are doing things over and over again. For China it is a treasure trove of data and ideal place for testing of their gear to detect and later shoot down U…

I actually agree with you on this completely, it's definitely the worst downside of the war. Same reason we don't want S400s being operated by Turkiye, we'd like China and Russia to have as little data as possible on our warplanes.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#362

Post by protocolture »

mmooss wrote: post #309

How much would electrification reduce the fuel logistics burden? Electricity can be moved anywhere in the world instantly, if you can dig a trench and lay cables. The problem, of course, is density, some combination of (energy OR power) per (liter OR gram) depending on the application: Batteries don't come close to the energy/power density of jet fuel, but what about whatever fuel armored vehicles use? And what about…

> but what about whatever fuel armored vehicles use?

In WW2 when low on fuel they would gassify combustible items and run that through the engines. The germans called it Holzgas. You could rig this up in the field. It wasnt good mind but the vehicles could move about when logistics fell through.

The idea of being tethered to your supply lines by a cable would probably scare logistics people witless. It would become a game of finding and destroying power cables.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#363

Post by ddtaylor »

cyberax wrote: post #336
klooney wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China/Taiwan kicks off, you're not getting new parts from Taiwan

The US can produce these chips. South Korea can also do that.

The US cannot produce most of what that TSMC can can. And those US factories aren't rolling yet either.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#364

Post by rawgabbit »

mikeodds wrote: post #273
rawgabbit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is deploying AI enabled drones that require no fiber optic wires and no electronic tethering. They patrol autonomously and identify targets; a human authorizes the strike and they take out targets by themselves. This is the holy grail of modern warfare; destroy the enemy’s rear staging and logistics. If they don’t have fuel or ammo, they are a defenseless sitting target.

got any more links for info on these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbC2cD1Mxjc https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20260601-ukraine-kamikaze...

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#365

Post by zemvpferreira »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #354
AlexCoventry wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reliably prevent a clever psychopath who's set their mind to it from gaining power?

That is the question worth focusing all the available energy and enthusiasm that is always somewhere else, but never at the humankind's worst problem. I think the answer could arise from a widely growing understanding of a) the methods of mass manipulation. Without manipulation, or outright mass hypnosis, no dictator is possible; b) the whole structure of power, and the fact that there are numerous barriers to filter…

Where there are simians, there is war. The more primitive the society, the bloodier and more total the war is. I wish our problem were psychopaths in power, but the truth is we are a tribal and fearful species and war is in our genes. It's as certain as a sunrise as long as there are humans.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#366

Post by mmooss »

protocolture wrote: post #362
mmooss wrote: post #309

How much would electrification reduce the fuel logistics burden? Electricity can be moved anywhere in the world instantly, if you can dig a trench and lay cables. The problem, of course, is density, some combination of (energy OR power) per (liter OR gram) depending on the application: Batteries don't come close to the energy/power density of jet fuel, but what about whatever fuel armored vehicles use? And what about…

> but what about whatever fuel armored vehicles use? In WW2 when low on fuel they would gassify combustible items and run that through the engines. The germans called it Holzgas. You could rig this up in the field. It wasnt good mind but the vehicles could move about when logistics fell through. The idea of being tethered to your supply lines by a cable would probably scare logistics people witless. It would become a…

Interesting. Maybe you could charge your electric vehicles on local supplies and/or carry emergency generators for charging that burn whatever input that is available, including wind, solar, and maybe even cranks, or that can be made, a la Holzgas. Also, you could charge one electrical device from others - even others at a distance.

> The idea of being tethered to your supply lines by a cable would probably scare logistics people witless.

I think buried electrical cables would be much more appealing than being tied to roads and trucks full of gasoline. Electrical cables are easy to lay, probably by uncrewed ground or even air vehicles, and could be done quickly with optimization. Redundancy would be cheap and easy, creating a network with few single points of failure. And keeping some generators close to the front, you can also ship them liquid fuel if needed.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#367

Post by asdff »

lostlogin wrote: post #222
asdff wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read there was actually significant war exhaustion among the public towards the end, contrary to the patriotism lens this time in history is frequently shown with. There was also a lot of effort to censor what was actually happening in the war from the public, both in terms of press coverage and in screening soldier letters to home. I'm not sure how long the american war machine can actually last. All the post WWII…

What’s more damaging at home? Pictures of your own soldiers dying, or video of the war crimes they are committing? Sadly, most wars generate both.

Both I'd say. These were both large issues for morale during Vietnam with how that war was increasingly documented and stretching on quite long with no real victory condition.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#368

Post by fragmede »

elictronic wrote: post #141
esseph wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I remember: Equipment was worth more than a capture. Capture was worth more than a kill (get Intel, trade for Ukranian captives). Kill was xyz points. The more points, the more weapons, equipment, and support you got. This was several years ago, I'm not sure its still in play.

It is. Article from last month. https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-e-points-system-stee...

That's fascinating, thank you for sharing. A market economy lets individual optimize from the bottom up.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#370

Post by elzbardico »

Robotbeat wrote: post #342
lostlogin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next war is going to need the US to do something pretty spectacular if it’s going to reclaim the ground it’s lost in the Iran war. The situation there is an utter joke, and shows no sign of wrapping up any time soon.

That’s because there’s no political will for ground forces by the US because it’s a dumb war. If there was political will, then the area around the Hormuz strait would’ve been seized, as well as the nuclear sites secured. Carpet bombing, too, not just surgical strikes.

Most analysts doubt the US, on its present phase, has the capabilities of doing so.
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