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Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

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Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#151

Post by ItsMonkk »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #148
ItsMonkk wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aligns the incentives. Education provides positive externalities that the market will not provide. > allow companies to direct the research towards their ends So long as they hit the requirements to reward the prize, I don't much care what else the students are driven to do. One might ask how does this differ from when a company hires a fresh graduate? In fact, I wouldn't mind also applying this system to those…

Meh, I don't think this is the right incentives we want to be pushing. Hire-ability shouldn't be what education is about...

Keep in mind that this allows, and protects, the academic channel to do their own thing. Right now they are pulled by those that don't care about academia because they want a job and know having the credential is how they get it.

If we begin doing this, and as a result, none of the academics can get a job as they are all filled by the 'embedded' students, I don't mind seeing how that shifts everything.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#152

Post by eudamoniac »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #149
eudamoniac wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to have to make an argument for why the taxpayer needs to pay for every citizen to take art history beyond "it's valuable". Okay, but $20,000 is also valuable and there are opportunity costs.

No I'm not, you're the one who said, "unproductive stuff shouldn't get funded" - not me. I think we should fund all of it because well educated people should make better decisions in a democracy and I want the cross disciplinary effects that occur when people can freely study their passions. I'd say, "why shouldn't so-called unproductive stuff get funded?"

You are the one who said all education should be free and you're also the one arguing for change. I already answered why this is a value judgment. Because money.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#153

Post by thrance »

roshin wrote: post #75
avaer wrote: post #16

Seems like an application of Goodhart's law; measuring worth by degree or grades stopped measuring learning or ability. This was a lot harder to cheat before AI, but now the floodgates are open and grades and degrees earned post-AI are showing that they mean little. Cheating on college tests should be a jailable criminal offense (similar to computer fraud) so that there is dignity in the degree again. Considering the…

Ideas like cheating on a college test should be jailable is why the US leads in number of jailed people

In France there's this law that cheating on any official exam gets you a 5 year ban on any other official exams. That includes finals, but also the exam to get the driver's license, among others.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#154

Post by yamillove »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #129
yamillove wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest country on earth ever is that which most people of the world, if given a free plane ticket and permission to live in, would go to. I don’t know how you find it controversial. It’s just a fact.

Maybe just the best marketed?

You need the goods. You cannot market Somalia for example.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#155

Post by Izkata »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #41
protocolture wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never had a home proctored test before? You cant even sneak paper on to your desk, where do you plan to hide the LLM?

Yeah, I’m enrolled in an online degree program and use of AI in exams would be quite difficult. The proctoring service my school uses requires a special browser with admin permissions and an external webcam with your entire workspace, screen, and face clearly visible (wide angle webcam preferred). Prior to the exam you have to photograph the entirety of your room, and if there’s even an open door that can disqualify…

Sounds like smart glasses might do it, if you normally wear glasses. Don't know how visible the display is from the outside, but I imagine if it isn't already they'd eventually be made invisible for privacy.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#156

Post by rbanffy »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #136
rbanffy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your grades tell you and your teachers how well you are doing. It's a useful feedback tool.

It really isn't though, grade inflation is decidedly a thing.

It is a useful measurement. It won’t allow you to compare beyond a short horizon, but it’s useful to gauge your own progress.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#157

Post by rbanffy »

eudamoniac wrote: post #145
piloto_ciego wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who defines "unproductive?" You? That's the thing, like, there's not a whole hell of a lot I learned in Phil 201 that is directly applicable to my job, but, you know the class is valuable. I took art history in college. Turned into being one of the most important classes I ever took and I'm one of those stem major types. Productivity shouldn't be the point of education - you get productivity indirectly out of the edu…

You're going to have to make an argument for why the taxpayer needs to pay for every citizen to take art history beyond "it's valuable". Okay, but $20,000 is also valuable and there are opportunity costs.

The taxpayer pays so that everyone, including that taxpayer, has the right to take an art history class. Everyone pays so that everyone can take whatever course they want, whenever they want.

A bit like public healthcare - everyone pays for it so that everyone can use it.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#158

Post by bell-cot »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #72
piloto_ciego wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

replying to my own thread here, but this got me thinking, so thanks OP, but... can anyone here think of some better ways where we could decouple the education process from the work process? To me this seems like the main problem. It seems that we've decided that "get good grades == good employee" collectively. I know I'm a bad employee (which is why I work for myself now but that's another story), but I got great gra…

Make education free. I'd love to study something like philosophy or art history but there's just no return on that investment. Unless you're already wealthy, it doesn't make sense to drop five or six figures on a degree unless it's likely to pay for itself. Which is even becoming less likely with STEM, as we hit a confluence of higher education costs, fewer job openings, and AI as a competitor for work.

Old geezer question: Are you thinking to make education free? Or to give everyone 4+ years at the upscale-lifestyle-resorts-with-classes which the US's major universities have evolved into over the past half century?

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#159

Post by archdang »

cliglot wrote: post #122
overgard wrote: post #27

This is already a clusterfuck, but it's going to be so much worse in 10 years. We're going to have an entire generation trapped in the gig economy because their education is going to be considered worthless, and even if it wasn't worthless, there won't be enough entry level jobs for anyone to get into. Senior people will age out and our entire society is just going to be hollowed out. And people wonder why I'm an AI…

> there won't be enough entry level jobs for anyone to get into. You know, I was reading an article about falling labor force participation rates, and one thing was pointed out was there seems to be a supply mismatch. Plenty of jobs are available, they’re just shit, go nowhere, pay nothing in the facing of rapidly rising COL jobs. I suspect the only retirement I’ll ever see will have to be via a shotgun.

Our new RaaS platform, Retirify, provides a wealth of more creative ways to receive your own, personalised, brutal ending.

Re: Suspecting AI cheating, Ivy League prof ordered in-person final; scores fell 50%

#160

Post by cosmic_cheese »

Izkata wrote: post #155
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m enrolled in an online degree program and use of AI in exams would be quite difficult. The proctoring service my school uses requires a special browser with admin permissions and an external webcam with your entire workspace, screen, and face clearly visible (wide angle webcam preferred). Prior to the exam you have to photograph the entirety of your room, and if there’s even an open door that can disqualify…

Sounds like smart glasses might do it, if you normally wear glasses. Don't know how visible the display is from the outside, but I imagine if it isn't already they'd eventually be made invisible for privacy.

For now smart glasses all still look strange (e.g. chunky in places normal glasses never are) which acts as a tell and displays remain at least somewhat visible. Hiding screens entirely would likely entail also blocking the light bouncing back from the user’s face in the screen areas which would look odd.
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