Live data from Hacker News

Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

davidoks.blog

21–30 of 536 posts

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#22
I tell this story every time ambulance costs come up because it might be helpful to anyone. I once lived in San Francisco in the mid-2010s. In SF, the SFFD operates the vast majority of ambulances in the city. As in, 80%+. I once had the need to go to the hospital urgently and called 911. The ambulance that showed up was SFFD. They transported me and I recovered safely. I then got a bill from them saying that my insurance had refused to pay for it - apparently that insurance company (they're lucky I've forgotten which one, as naming and shaming health insurance people is one of my favorite hobbies) had refused to contract with SFFD, making them "out of network." Yes, an out of network ambulance. And remember, there's at least an 80% chance that an SFFD ambulance will show up, and I've never heard of them offering a menu of ambulance companies to the caller who's likely having a heart attack, bleeding, etc!

So of course, my insurance would only pay some small pittance, if anything, and I was sent a ~$1000 bill. I immediately filed a complaint with the insurance company's California regulator (at the time it was the Dept of Insurance for this one, but it seems most or all now are under the Department of Managed Health Care) since insurance companies are by law obligated to pay at the in-network rate in the case of an emergency (which presumably is why you call an ambulance in the first place). Within 2 weeks I received a letter from the insurance company that all was completely fine and that they'd corrected the situation and paid the bill.

So we have an insurance company which surely knows that law, surely knows what an ambulance is for, but has discovered the "life hack" of having an extremely inadequate network, simply refusing nearly every ambulance claim made in the City, and then only paying the small percentage who know the law and know how to file a complaint. And of course, there's no punishment, the punishment is just having to pay the few times they're caught.

And insurance companies wonder where all that anger (Delay, Deny, Depose, was it?) comes from.

Anyway, practical moral of the story: don't let them get away with doing that if it happens to you or someone you know!

Note: My story is obviously kind of tangential to the actual article which explains why the cost is so high due to everyone who's being subsidized by what they're charging privately-insured patients. However, I have but the world's tiniest violin for those extremely profitable insurance companies who would obviously really like one of their costs of doing business to just go away. Yeah, I'd also like it if I could be paid my full salary, even though I refuse any work I find annoying.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#23

We’re all pretending this is an unsolvable problem when really most of the world has solved it by making ambulance (EMS) funding similar to fire and police departments. Somehow in any emergency I’ve seen, all three show up, often EMS before police or fire dept, and somehow that’s a service that has to be supplemented by insurance billings. The blog mentions it, but it’s one of those obvious things that somehow isn’t…

the reverse side of that medal is that in 'most of the world' EMS quality is ass.

If you limit it to say the top 20 developed countries how does it look?

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#24
I think the answer is very simple. Regulation. If there was no regulation or very little then anyone could open up an ambulance service and the cheapest costs and the best service would win.

Unfortunately that’s not the case. It’s like day care. Day care is expensive because the government mandates it to be expensive. Otherwise you’d have grandmas down your street would gladly watch your kid but it’s generally not allowed for more than a couple kids.

Same thing with houses. I have half an acre. Could easily put 2 affordable tiny homes on it. Good income for me, cheap rent for someone else, but, unfortunately it’s legally blocked

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#25
I think one of the most aggravating things about interacting with the health care system is losing control of cost/risk/reward tradeoffs. The mandatory transfer and ambulance ride in the linked story are an excellent example. I think I'd have walked out against medical advice in that circumstance, but there is the constant danger of being subjected to similar costs, both monetary and physical, when I am less conscious or at a serious informational disadvantage. The need to bring a patient advocate with you to the hospital whose role echoes both doctor and lawyer is becoming quite serious.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#27

We’re all pretending this is an unsolvable problem when really most of the world has solved it by making ambulance (EMS) funding similar to fire and police departments. Somehow in any emergency I’ve seen, all three show up, often EMS before police or fire dept, and somehow that’s a service that has to be supplemented by insurance billings. The blog mentions it, but it’s one of those obvious things that somehow isn’t…

But if we fixed it, that might help people who can't afford the ride otherwise. And we cannot have that. --- Says far too many people, always.

Sure, in a given public discussion, lots of people saying that show up. But substantial portion of those are shills, not necessarily people to say but who benefit from the scam. And some people who are paid, public relations people acting on the downlow, etc.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#30

I think the answer is very simple. Regulation. If there was no regulation or very little then anyone could open up an ambulance service and the cheapest costs and the best service would win. Unfortunately that’s not the case. It’s like day care. Day care is expensive because the government mandates it to be expensive. Otherwise you’d have grandmas down your street would gladly watch your kid but it’s generally not al…

I would absolutely not tolerate and unregulated ambulance responding to my emergency.
Post reply on HN