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Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

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Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#251

Post by sdevonoes »

Don’t understand these rewrites.

- typically they are behind a single person. That’s usually bad because of spf

- typically they are achieved in a very short amount of time, so the author hasn’t acquired any discipline in creating the project. That means it’s unlikely the author is going to stick to the project in the mid and long term

- anyone that wants to contribute to the project needs to pay. Needs to pay tokens because it’s increasingly difficult to maintain these projects without AI

So, who wants to put something like this in production? Doesn’t make much sense

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#253

Post by mayli »

jackphilson wrote: post #137
antihero wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing, without the decades of work, it wouldn't BE trivial. Everyone is standing on the shoulders of those which came before. If LLMs allow us to combine the incredible decades of effort and knowledge and experiences that's gone into building something as great as Postgres, and take that and combine the experience and philosophy that has led to the creation of a language that potentially provides tangi…

But who is getting celebrated? The people who spent a lot of time on the original thing, or the AI rewrite that everyone now uses?

The people benefit from all human knowledge, future human beings.

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#254

Post by kirubakaran »

sdevonoes wrote: post #251

Don’t understand these rewrites. - typically they are behind a single person. That’s usually bad because of spf - typically they are achieved in a very short amount of time, so the author hasn’t acquired any discipline in creating the project. That means it’s unlikely the author is going to stick to the project in the mid and long term - anyone that wants to contribute to the project needs to pay. Needs to pay tokens…

Everything has to start somewhere

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#255

Post by lowsong »

mebcitto wrote: post #9
juliangmp wrote: post #2

I feel like we need to heavily differentiate between a rewrite and an AI rewrite.

Not sure it’s so simple. I think close to 100% of new ambitious projects are going to leverage AI at least to some degree. I know a couple that have strict no-AI policies (e.g. Zig), but it’s a tiny minority i think. So how much AI usage does it make it an “AI rewrite”?

> I think close to 100% of new ambitious projects are going to leverage AI at least to some degree.

Once the free money dries up that number will rapidly tend towards 0%.

> So how much AI usage does it make it an “AI rewrite”?

Any amount.

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#256

Post by pyrolistical »

sdevonoes wrote: post #251

Don’t understand these rewrites. - typically they are behind a single person. That’s usually bad because of spf - typically they are achieved in a very short amount of time, so the author hasn’t acquired any discipline in creating the project. That means it’s unlikely the author is going to stick to the project in the mid and long term - anyone that wants to contribute to the project needs to pay. Needs to pay tokens…

It’s open source. You take ownership of it for your deployment and stop relying on continued free work.

You can use llm to pull in updates as they are released. It’s not gpl, so you don’t need to publish your port

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#257

Post by ahartmetz »

pyrolistical wrote: post #256
sdevonoes wrote: post #251

Don’t understand these rewrites. - typically they are behind a single person. That’s usually bad because of spf - typically they are achieved in a very short amount of time, so the author hasn’t acquired any discipline in creating the project. That means it’s unlikely the author is going to stick to the project in the mid and long term - anyone that wants to contribute to the project needs to pay. Needs to pay tokens…

It’s open source. You take ownership of it for your deployment and stop relying on continued free work. You can use llm to pull in updates as they are released. It’s not gpl, so you don’t need to publish your port

You don't even need to publish your port if it's GPLv3 as long as you don't publish the binary.

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#258

Post by malisper »

dimes wrote: post #242
malisper wrote: post #147

Hey author here. Wasn't expecting to see this up. To concisely give an overview of the project, I've been experimenting with using LLMs to build a better version of Postgres. Postgres is 30 years old and we've learned a lot about databases since hten. A lot of the techniques that work for doing a rewrite are also useful for doing a rearchitecture. I'm now working on a new, not yet published version of pgrust that inc…

While a thread-per-connection seems like an improvement, do you have any plans to allow query multiplexing over a single connection? That would be a huge improvement IMO.

Can you elaborate on the use case for query multiplexing? Is it so your client would only need to establish one connection with Postgres and then could run as many queries as it wanted?

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#259

Post by aforwardslash »

bakugo wrote: post #104
dirkc wrote: post #78

How would one go about reviewing a piece of code like this? One of the things I'd typically do is peek at the commit history. Seeing what people worked on and how they did it tends to say a lot about a project. But with LLMs generating 7101 commits in less than a month that isn't feasible. Even looking at a single day is way too much [1]. It probably also doesn't make sense since the commits content won't tell you mu…

Vibe code was never meant to be reviewed. These rewrites are just test-driven development taken to the absolute extreme. Created under the hope that the existing tests are exhaustive and cover every relevant use case, such that if they all pass, the rewrite must be at least as good as the original. So just go with the vibes and burn tokens until they pass, and your job is done. In practice, this is never true for any…

One of the projects Im working on and off is a tamper-proof audit log, based on some PoC code I created almost 10 years go; unit and integration testing are good at preventing defects and regressions, but they will not guarantee your software will work. However, with the power of LLMs, one can easily use model checking (in my case with Quint) and/or other formal proof approaches to ensure the software conforms as specified. The result (in my opinion) is an implementation guided by a single human that is actually more trustworthy than manual human-made software using the traditional approach.

Re: Postgres rewritten in Rust, now passing 100% of the Postgres regression tests

#260

Post by jgon »

colordrops wrote: post #218
dwedge wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quote-replied to your comment, so I doubt it was unrelated. > I never claimed that there wasn't AI slop No, but you implied that a top tier dev doesn't produce slop when using AI. > If you have a black box that spits out code, and you are unable to distinguish the quality between a top tier dev and an AI inside the black box My point was that "if" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here and you're coming very close to…

Yes most people are not top tier devs and most code is slop whether written by AI or not. I've probably dug through tens of thousands of code bases in my over 30 year career as a software engineer and most are slop. I also did not claim that all "top tier devs" would always produce better code with AI, but the qualification for a "top tier dev" in this case would be someone who verifies code multiple ways to make sur…

You've dug through tens of thousands of code bases? 30 years would give you ~10,950 days, so you'd have to be digging into 2 code bases per day, every single day without any breaks for 30 years straight, to get to "tens of thousands".

When I read things like this it makes it very hard to give any credence to the rest of your pro-AI arguments, because it just seems incredibly likely that you're a bullshitter.

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