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EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#341

Post by tryauuum »

EGreg wrote: post #81

I do not believe solutions to these issues will be found with government regulators. I believe they can be enabled by new technology that is designed to balance interests on all sides and actually enforce the guarantees IN CODE AND PROTOCOLS. Having said that, I don’t think the tech industry is what it once was, dominated by cypherpunks working to create a better world. It has been captured by greed and “moving fast…

> new technology that is designed to balance interests on all sides and actually enforce the guarantees IN CODE AND PROTOCOLS.

They will just call your code illegal in law. And if you will run it anyway, use deep packet inspection to drop your protocol packets, like they do in Russia

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#342

Post by sunshowers »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #320
sunshowers wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, a big part of the problem in Europe is that people seeking asylum are prohibited from making a living (due to widespread belief in the lump of labor fallacy) and so have to be dependent on welfare.

>asylum are prohibited from making a living This is exactly how we got here. We allowed them to work to make temporary asylum permanent migration.

Look, you can either let people make a living and manage their own lives while contributing to society, or you can not let them make a living and ensure they're housed and fed. You can't be angry at A and also be angry at B.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#344

Post by zelphirkalt »

lyu07282 wrote: post #324
sunshine-o wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should worry everybody is the big picture (trying to abstract from politics, ideologies and specific situation). In recent years we had: - Europe is now at war with Russia (neighbor) - Its relationship with the US is rapidly deteriorating (main partner, de facto protector) - Its relationship with China is also rapidly deteriorating - It is getting very antagonistic with it own citizen and some individual member…

Isn't it interesting that if you remove the US from that list, it all aligns with US foreign policy? How fortuitous that EU interests just happen to coincide so well with our American friends.

US is now allied with Russia though. Or at least its president acts as if it was.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#345

Post by encom »

bradley13 wrote: post #128

Stupid parliamentary trick: Hold the vote on the day before the summer break - ensuring that many people have already returned to their home countries. Then use a sort of "reverse" parliamentary trick: the default is that this legislation is accepted. They needed an absolute majority - not of voting members, but of all members - to reject it. Result: 314 against, 276 in favor, 17 abstentions, 113 absent The EU is wel…

The EU and corrupt politicians (that's most of them), will do what they want, regardless of your opinions. I have completely given up on participating in democracy. My country is going to hell, and I don't believe anyone is able to stop it.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#347

Post by spikels »

teekert wrote: post #38

This is a nice piece of democracy right here: "a measure it had rejected twice in March. Although a majority of voting Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) actually opposed the regulation (314 against, 276 in favor, 17 abstentions), the motion to reject it failed to secure the required absolute majority of 361 votes. As a result, mass scanning is now permitted again until 2028." "Oh no we can't get a majority to…

Not only was Chat Control 1.0 already rejected twice by the European Parliament but:

- This vote took place on last day of the session when many MEPs had already left for Summer vacation - 112 MEPs of 719 didn't vote.

- The vote was called only two days before as an "Rule 170 - Urgent procedure" - 73 MEPs missed the vote making it "urgent". Normally it takes months of procedure to come up for a final vote.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#348

Post by foldr »

simplyluke wrote: post #294
globular-toast wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly doesn't seem to make much difference, though. If anything the UK is less authoritarian than the US now.

How many people are arrested for social media posts and other speech in each country?

It's actually quite hard to say, as there are no official figures on arrests specifically for social media posts in either country. And lot of the specific cases that people point to in the UK (e.g. Lucy Connolly) have parallels in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-com...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7pyjxjxrvo

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/federal-agents-mon...

(The figures that the American right give for "arrests for social media posts" in the UK are actually figures from certain police forces for arrests under various pieces of online communication legislation, many of which have nothing to do with social media.)

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#349

Post by zelphirkalt »

tenthirtyam wrote: post #240
budududuroiu wrote: post #6

Roberta Metsola's actions this week jeopardise the legitimacy of the EU project as a whole. It's clear that member countries use the EU as a blame-laundering mechanism to pass domestically unpopular laws, but the forcing of this vote under the urgency procedure that requires absolute majority to reject, on the last EP session before summer break is so blatant that it might awaken people that might've overlooked the s…

I think I'm one of those to whom you refer (except that I'm already "awake", or at least I like to think so). I'm normally pro-EU but this chat control is anathema to me. I'll be voting anti-EU in future I think.

Yeah, this is also a step too far for me. The EU has also done good things, like GDPR, right to repair, fining big tech again and again ... but it rarely follows up as much as it needs to.

The problem is though, that countries in the EU by themselves are economically not powerful enough, to hold up any ethical values against the giants US and China. So we need some alternative to the EU, some other union, that at least contains the economically most powerful EU countries, so that we have enough economical weight, that the other big players cannot simply push us around. Currently, the EU seems to be hellbent on losing its support. But how to prevent that other union to go down the same road?

Anyway, it seems clear, that we can no longer allow EU decision makers to make rules for us. They are not to be trusted.

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