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The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

mwi.westpoint.edu

141–150 of 701 posts

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#141
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally gamified it? Amazing.

From what I remember: Equipment was worth more than a capture. Capture was worth more than a kill (get Intel, trade for Ukranian captives). Kill was xyz points. The more points, the more weapons, equipment, and support you got. This was several years ago, I'm not sure its still in play.

It is. Article from last month.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-e-points-system-stee...

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is deploying AI enabled drones that require no fiber optic wires and no electronic tethering. They patrol autonomously and identify targets; a human authorizes the strike and they take out targets by themselves. This is the holy grail of modern warfare; destroy the enemy’s rear staging and logistics. If they don’t have fuel or ammo, they are a defenseless sitting target.

huh? how does one keep a human in the loop for decision making it there is not an 'electronic tether'?

A human is not piloting the drone. It patrols even if it lost communication due to jamming. It does need communication to ask the human for authorization to strike.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#143
post #63
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing peculiar about the US, every country or even tribe has fought many wars.

Not every country or tribe has been engaged in near continuous violence for over two centuries. That isn't simply "fighting many wars" it's being "existentially bound to warfare." The US is peculiar. It's the nation born of a continent-wide campaign of genocide and plunder. It's the only Western nation that couldn't give up slavery without a civil war. It's the only nation to wage nuclear war, and did so primarily ag…

I appreciate this comment, and agree with it in some respects, but some of these specifics are demonstrably false.

> It's the nation born of a continent-wide campaign of genocide and plunder

Hard to see how that description doesn't apply to most of the New World. Mexico and Peru were founded on bones of conquered and plundered empires. First Nations in Canada suffered much the same as their counterparts in the US.

> It's the only Western nation that couldn't give up slavery without a civil war.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to say this is literally false, but the implication that every other nation gave up slavery willingly and without violence certainly is (see Haiti, for a particularly bloody example)

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#144
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a fragmented, decentralized system also help make their supply chains more resilient? If they had a single large drone factory, it would be a sizable target.

During WW2 in the United States, you had all sorts of consumer goods companies reorganized to output a prodigious amount of military supplies. There were multiple companies making the same model of things, with fairly rigorous QA to ensure quality and uniformity. For example, the BC-348 receiver, widely used in aircraft, was produced initially by RCA, and eventually "farmed out" to 3 other manufacturers. More than 4…

It's not a great comparison because Germany could not hit the US mainland. Even if there had been a single giant everything factory it wouldn't have mattered.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#145

A very insightful, and correct, piece. I'll quote in full the following, which I think gets to the heart of the matter. If you have no push, you can't apply pressure to the point. > The notion that amateurs talk tactics and professionals talk logistics is frequently discussed in military academies and war colleges, yet it is rarely reflected in the Army’s budget requests or modernization priorities. The outdated conc…

One of the most interesting innovations in the Ukraine war is their internal market place for drones, letting each drone group decide which drones they want to procure and use in battle. It is not a top-down decision, production and supply as other armies use for their weapons logistics.

The system is useful for many reasons, not the least of which that it provides an easy way to avoid war crimes (which hurt the war effort via bad PR in partner countries). They award units 10x as many points (which can be redeemed for drones, HIMARS strikes, etc) for a capture than they do for a kill.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most interesting innovations in the Ukraine war is their internal market place for drones, letting each drone group decide which drones they want to procure and use in battle. It is not a top-down decision, production and supply as other armies use for their weapons logistics.

You also have to ponder how it looks when you remove the Chinese supply chain for all those commodity parts. Which will almost certainly be the case if we decide to punch that dance card. Having a boundless cornucopia of servos and radios will affect the shape of your logistics/maintenance/fabrication complex. That's not just a "Ukraine Problem" either.

Ukraine and Taiwan quietly cooperate in weapons development and production, especially drones.[1] They both have big, aggressive neighbors. Ukraine knows how to fight them, and Taiwan can make electronics in quantity. Ukraine is starting to get cooperation from Japan, too, but that's in an earlier stage.[2] With Taiwan, it's serious.

The paper doesn't mention Ukraine at all, yet it's all about the kind of war that Ukraine is fighting.

[1] https://dset.tw/en/research/000491-2/

[2] https://www.technology.org/2026/03/17/japan-might-sell-weapo...

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#147
post #11

When Russia invaded Ukraine, nobody (even the Ukranians) imagined that 5 years later they would have their own missiles hammering Russia 2500kms in the rear. Americans need to start accepting that a) the Iran war will also probably still be going on in 5 years and b) Iran will probably in a better place than they are now, strategically speaking.

> Iran war will also probably still be going on in 5 years The Russia/Ukraine war has a goal, to make Ukraine either part of Russia or a client state. What's the goal of the US/Iran war? So far it seems like the goal is to mostly return to the status quo prior to the war. I can't imagine that could continue 5 years because there's just not an objective. Of course, I could easily be mistaken.

Write off depreciation on military hardware?

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#148
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should probably rename it from "tail" to "neck" and watch the attitudes shift immediately.

Tooth to tail is crappy PC/corporate-approved rename. The concept used to have a bunch of arrow and spear related names and a bunch of informal phallic counterparts all of which are better suited to the fundamental workflow of mechanized offensive operations.

For curiosity’s sake, what were these things referred to historically and informally?

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#149

>the difficulty of transporting extremely heavy 155-millimeter artillery shells and guided multiple-launch rocket system pods across contested oceans and degraded theater road networks I found it interesting that not even this article thinks about it that the US mainland ever can be attacked

> I found it interesting that not even this article thinks about it that the US mainland ever can be attacked It can be, but it would be very, very difficult for anything short of lobbing ICBMs around. You'd have to have a fleet of ships that would be detected as soon as they set sail, and then protect that fleet for the entire voyage, which would also be extremely difficult for any adversary. Getting boots on US soi…

For better and for worse our country is armed to the teeth with civilians who would take great offense to a foreign military invasion

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#150
post #78
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this strategy worked to keep Ukraine alive, by enabling them to throw literally anything and everything they could obtain into the fight. And the system enabled rapid experimentation and evolution of what works. Also they didn't have enough of anything to equip all units equally or fully, so a market-like system of was also a way to triage short supply. However the logistics costs of fragmentation are very real (rele…

Reminds me of the Cambrian revolution: suddenly there were all kinds of weird animals. Many of these kinds rapidly disappeared, while a few more successful ones kept on. Or at least that's my reading.

Look at 1950s aircraft. That was the decade of really weird aircraft, as people figured out how jets were supposed to work. Supersonics. VTOL aircraft. The X-planes. Rocket-assisted takeoff. After that, more was known about what worked, and designs became more similar.
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