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US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

arstechnica.com

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Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#111

Post by FuckButtons »

mrtksn wrote: post #28

I’m no military expert by any means but US appears to be obsessed with destroying some super important target to win, like they did with killing Iran leaders only to find out that new leader replace the perished. The same with the other stuff, they have super important radar and super important ships that need to be defended and a failure creates irreplaceable loses. Iran on the other hand, just like with their super…

The pentagon can’t stop gold plating requirements, but that’s not just a problem of this administration. We’re still feeling the effects of the self inflicted hollowing out of the defense industry at the end of the Cold War, every defense contractor has learned that the only sane way to survive financially is to put as many bells and whistles on to their contracts as they can safe in the knowledge that the one or two other companies bidding for the contracts will be doing the exact same thing and the pentagon has lost the institutional knowledge on how to purchase systems and get anything like a good deal.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#112

Post by beambot »

mountainb wrote: post #30
hvb2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but being fueled by massively excessive taxes in the USA Not excessive taxes, a political choice to spend a lot of the revenue on defense. And anyone who wants to reduce military spending will get asked: "Don't you support our troops?" And that'll be the end of that

Taxes in the US go to a cluster of major items. Medicare, other medical, Social Security, interest, VA benefits and veteran's medical care, federal spending on the indigent or disabled, and Defense. Those together are 94% of annual federal spending. None of that spending is subject to that much debate; all the remaining "debate" is over the remaining 6%. I don't think defense is really as discretionary as it seems. A…

> A lot of it is effectively bribing and menacing trading partners

That's just a byproduct of propping up the military industrial complex; have to have conflicts to justify giving the primes sole-source cost+ contracts so they can meet their quarterly EPS targets.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#113

Post by dawnerd »

Noaidi wrote: post #74
dataviz1000 wrote: post #26

There are ~350,000,000 of us. When I read we spent $1B, I think about how I'm responsible for $3 of that. It doesn't matter considering the ~$117,550 of the national debt I'm responsible for. It palls compared to the $3,000 a year in interest towards the national debt I'm responsible for. What boggles my mind is that I make coffee at home because I'm frugal. I guess it is good the government and DoD are seeking cheap…

Now you know why there is war. We have war because the U.S. is failing. Just look at the reversal of the 10 and 30 y bonds over the last 20 years. All the free money that was given to the oligarchs killed our economy.

And they’re still on cnbc daily saying rates need to go down to save the us. There’s a guy on right now saying rates need to be lower to save the ai bubble.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#114

Post by xienze »

Noaidi wrote: post #74
dataviz1000 wrote: post #26

There are ~350,000,000 of us. When I read we spent $1B, I think about how I'm responsible for $3 of that. It doesn't matter considering the ~$117,550 of the national debt I'm responsible for. It palls compared to the $3,000 a year in interest towards the national debt I'm responsible for. What boggles my mind is that I make coffee at home because I'm frugal. I guess it is good the government and DoD are seeking cheap…

Now you know why there is war. We have war because the U.S. is failing. Just look at the reversal of the 10 and 30 y bonds over the last 20 years. All the free money that was given to the oligarchs killed our economy.

In this particular case I think it's just because Trump can't resist doing every single thing Israel wants.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#115

Post by ihsw »

Noaidi wrote: post #69
mrtksn wrote: post #28

I’m no military expert by any means but US appears to be obsessed with destroying some super important target to win, like they did with killing Iran leaders only to find out that new leader replace the perished. The same with the other stuff, they have super important radar and super important ships that need to be defended and a failure creates irreplaceable loses. Iran on the other hand, just like with their super…

> Maybe USA has more fundamental problems Yes we do, it is called imperialism. Now with a sprinkle of senile Fascism.

[dead]

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#116

Post by ndiddy »

yonaguska wrote: post #43
cm2012 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Ukraine is making equivalent tech now for 1/10th the price. It's great to see.

All the drone footage is actually pretty horrific to see.

Yeah FPV drones have massively increased the cost of invading a country. It's basically a return to WWI style trench warfare, except no man's land is the size of the range of the drones (20+ KM).

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#117

Post by stickfigure »

freedomben wrote: post #2

I worked on the control systems for Predators and Reapers back in the mid and late 00s, and the inefficiencies around process were enormous. Safety is extremely important, so you expect some slowness as a result, but it got pretty extreme. I remember one time having to do 6 weeks of testing around a one-line code change because a "helpful" dev fixed a small bug that had no practical impact. Yet because it changed the…

"Software saved the aerospace industry. Every other way of adding cost to an aircraft also adds weight."

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#118

Post by barrenko »

pjc50 wrote: post #10
freedomben wrote: post #2

I worked on the control systems for Predators and Reapers back in the mid and late 00s, and the inefficiencies around process were enormous. Safety is extremely important, so you expect some slowness as a result, but it got pretty extreme. I remember one time having to do 6 weeks of testing around a one-line code change because a "helpful" dev fixed a small bug that had no practical impact. Yet because it changed the…

cf the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48845442 ; Ukraine has a hugely inventive and effective drone industry because it has to work . If it doesn't succeed, there is no Ukraine, and everyone involved in making the drones is dead, fled, in a POW camp, or sucked into the internal Russian displacement system away from their family. By comparison, if the US products fail, there's no real negative effe…

To add that Ukraine was also USSR's drone research center; not to detract from what you are saying.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#119

Post by wafflemaker »

bluegatty wrote: post #33
newaccount670 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think you can produce them for cheaper, you could make yourself a lot of money and save taxpayers a lot of money by starting your own company.

This statement implies a misrepresentation of how these kinds of supply chains work. These are captured markets, there is no competition. The bar is set high, or specifically, so that small players cannot compete, and this is done by extensiive relationship management at all levels, and heavy marketing. It takes a situation like Ukraine to 'prove' to everyone that 'cheap things can work well'. Even in the face of gla…

>It takes a situation like Ukraine to 'prove' to everyone that 'cheap things can work well'.

It's likely not even that. According to Jacek Bartosiak, Polish geopolitics popularisator, it came by a kind of blind "luck".

He travels a lot to Ukraine and talks a lot with military and dual use manufacturers.

Regular arms manufacturing in Ukraine was, just like anywhere else, not very innovative and dominated by big actors that could make sure nobody else can enter the market.

But the drones were not seen by them as anything serious, and due to dire needs the market has been deregulated, which allowed many small businesses to flourish and develop the fantastic industry that Ukraine is so proud of now.

But that came mostly because the big fish let the small underdogs on the market because they thought there is no market.

Hope I'm not mixing anything up.

Re: US seeks cheaper hunter-killer drones after Iran destroys $1B worth of Reapers

#120

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

freedomben wrote: post #2

I worked on the control systems for Predators and Reapers back in the mid and late 00s, and the inefficiencies around process were enormous. Safety is extremely important, so you expect some slowness as a result, but it got pretty extreme. I remember one time having to do 6 weeks of testing around a one-line code change because a "helpful" dev fixed a small bug that had no practical impact. Yet because it changed the…

In contrast I read that Ukraine is approving 4+ new weapons systems PER DAY !!

Even when it comes to more expensive things like cruise missiles it seems the planning has to be that some high percentage of them may be shot down (and much higher for slower moving drones), so you really want them cheap and in high volume, with reliability somewhat of a secondary concern.

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