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John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

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231–240 of 320 posts

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me why any farmer buys JD? It seems like $1000 oil filters is something farmers would notice and talk about in that community?

Deere employee, but speaking for myself, not the company. Farmers buy Deere because they are the most repairable. The dealer is just down the road, and has the parts that you need. The things you cannot do yourself are things that farmers think "I wouldn't do that anyway".

> they are the most repairable.

That's a really weird way to spell "incumbency and network effects".

In fairness, you're not wrong, but that seems to be a very specific framing that hides a lot of what this whole discussion is about.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#232
I think it’s important to understand that while this is a win, it’s only a small step.

> Deere will now be required to make diagnostic and repair tools available to equipment owners and independent repair shops, not only its own network of authorized dealers.

In practice, this means Deere will now operate similar to auto manufacturers. They will make their proprietary scanning equipment, software, and manuals available… for a few-thousand-dollar/ month subscription.

You have options as to where you can replace the physical components… but still need to pay a subscription fee in order to use your vehicle’s full feature set or get access to the data you collected but don’t actually own. Your vehicle’s firmware is still locked.

They will make their parts available… but not necessarily to a common standard (we could have used a common bolt size or hose line, or specced a commonly available alternator, but we decided not to), making it prohibitively costly for third party manufacturers to compete on aftermarket parts, and keeping genuine part costs high.

You can (legally) work on the machine yourself… but work done without a licensed mechanic will likely void your warranty, or prevent you from using necessary software features.

Your local mechanic can now repair your equipment… but in order to do that work they may have to invest in not only scanners and software, but an odd handful of unique task-specific or custom tools in order to complete the repair.

Don’t get me wrong, this is still a win. It’s high time that the FTC addressed Deere’s blatantly anti-competitive behavior. However, this isn’t a silver bullet that will save farmers from the rising tide of extractive capitalism, or isolate their tractors from nation state cyber threats.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get things like the ATP (I can't bring myself to say ATP podcast because La Brea Tar Pits and all that) where two hosts are fine at 1.5x and the third becomes a chipmunk. Maybe they can make Overcast have dynamic speed based on speaker.

Who of the three do you feel speaks much faster naturally?

Here's where I admit that I can't identify them - but offhand I think it was Siracusa. I know because I tried speeding up a recent episode and he started talking and I had to slow it back down.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#235
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be a victim of the Goomba Fallacy[0] where you're seeing two opposing opinions from two distinct groups of people, but since those are expressed on the same site, it seems as if 'the site' is contradicting itself. [0] https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-goomb...

Doesn't Goomba fallacy require at least one opinion should be minority?

obviously not. Its about the fact that the two people expressing those two opinions are literally different people... They don't have "cognitive dissonance", they are two people! They disagree! thats normal!

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#236
post #83

In the last decade, on a fleet of almost 30 Deere machines from lawnmowers to high-clearance sprayers and combines, I could count on one hand the number of times I've needed the Deere laptop to diagnose a problem to fix it.

Well I guess you speak for everyone. Let's ban a persons right to repair.

It astonishes me how aggressive people are on this issue that have never turned a wrench on a Deere machine.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#237
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish he wasn’t such an ass. Had a never meet your heroes moment outside defcon a few years ago. Not a friendly person and went from big fan to disdain when I hear his name.

Not to be rude, but what explicitly, made him an ass from your perspective? Look at it from his standpoint. He has an untold amount of people vying for his attention, comments that hopefully are managed by a 3rd party/other folks, and who knows quantity of people contacting him with ideas for a story, video, or some such. I don't even know if he still even runs or manages his repair business at all at this point. Whe…

Years ago, when he was still in NYC, I posted a minor technical correction under one of his videos on reddit and received a rambling essay-length reply plus an aggressive DM from him about how "people like me" are trying to bring him down, all at ~4am his time. That's not "filtering out what matters" it's evidence of paranoid mania, and that's all I see in his videos now.

I'm glad he's been able to turn this into a career doing genuinely good work that I agree with, but he is first and foremost a drama youtuber and that requires a confrontational personality.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly I have never worked in the agriculture industry, but I have been a mechanical engineer for multiple industries before I became a software engineer (a good 5 years I was in a position where I quoted customers). You really cannot imagine that out of the 44B gross revenue and 5B net, that a "non tiny fraction" was not related to right the repair? Collections of receivables + Proceeds from sales of equipment o…

Yup. The two things John Deere did was make it impossible to diagnose problems with software lockouts and they did software locks for common parts. Imagine, for example, needing to pay $1000 to replace an oil filter because you needed to buy the official John Deere oil filter and have the John Deere technician drive out to install it and flash the tractor to start up with the new filter. That's what John Deere was up…

Tractors are immortal (my Dad's 80-year-old Ford 9N can attest to that), John Deere is immoral.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#239
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to repair doesn't change any of that. Farmers were adjusting that screw anyways, that was the entire point. I'm not mad at farmers for doing it, I'm mad at John Deere at cheating the system.

The point is that when the firmware was locked down, it was vastly more difficult to bypass emissions restrictions. I'm not sure what you mean when you say John Deere was cheating the system. Arguably they were taking compliance more strictly before this ruling.

> I'm not sure what you mean when you say John Deere was cheating the system.

Instead of selling tractors with more powerful, but limited motors, they should have sold tractors with less powerful motors and no screw. There is no need to do any of this in software. They were purposefully avoiding the regulation by telling farmers, "do not loosen that screw, or you'll break the law, wink-wink!"

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think if he did that people wouldn't pay attention. My experience is that when you complain to people about digital rights they just glaze over unless you walk them through all the ins and outs and the implications.

I'm one of the people who mostly ignores his videos due to their length and the 'old man angry ranting about things' vibe they give me.

Everyone should be as angry as him, then companies wouldn't keep screwing us over.
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