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EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#71

Post by simiones »

vrganj wrote: post #26
like_any_other wrote: post #21

> In these talks, the EU Parliament is pushing for a paradigm shift in how we approach online child safety, demanding: [..] Strict security standards for messaging apps (“Security by Design”) to prevent cyber grooming. It's dispiriting to see a supposedly pro-privacy politician launder backdoors as "strict security standards".

I think they mean local scanning for CSAM - which feels like a reasonable solution that preserves privacy, but still addresses the real problem of, y'know, child abuse?

What is the false positive rate that you would be comfortable with such a scan having? What would be the risk of your personal photos and videos being recognized as CSAM and reported to your local police (and thus being shown to your local police) that you would be happy to accept?

Would you also be ok with not being allowed to send any mail unless you first scan the contents of everything in that envelope and include a generated signature that might tell the post office that you're sending CSAM? And then having the envelope delivered directly to police if the scan did indicate that?

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#72

Post by Stagnant »

inigyou wrote: post #51
londons_explore wrote: post #13

The defence against this is widespread truly peer to peer messaging services, where there is no company at the middle to tell you add backdoors. Who is working on that? I suspect the main challenge is not technical, but human - persuading users to switch messenger apps is almost impossible.

Session was recently shut down due to lack of funding. True P2P implies knowing the IP addresses of the people you're talking to.

Session was supposed to be shut down at start of July but looks like they got enough funding from donations to keep going for now.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#74

Post by logifail »

budududuroiu wrote: post #49
inigyou wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chat Control 2.0 is the censorship regulation. Chat Control 1.0 just legalized what Facebook was doing anyway.

Sure, then just let the normal legislative process run its course, no need to bleed political capital and get an already polarised electorate to hate the EU even more by shoving this legislation through in this way.

> no need to bleed political capital

I'm not sure the EU needs to worry about political capital in the way that many national and regional governments do. Power moves through negotiations between institutions, party groups, lobbyists, activists, and heads of government rather than through anything voters can trace. If one is being unkind, it's basically backroom deals all the way down. Naturally, the EU has more respectable terms for this sort of thing, like "trilogue".

Look at how the President of the European Commission got her job in 2019 - there was an election campaign in which major parties presented lead candidates for the post and she wasn't one of them, then post-election - ta da - she's nominiated for the post and there's a confirmatory vote in the Parliament on which the ballot paper had precisely one name listed - hers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48853746

https://www.alamy.com/16-july-2019-france-france-straburg-a-...

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#75

Post by riddlemethat »

superloika wrote: post #28
budududuroiu wrote: post #6

Roberta Metsola's actions this week jeopardise the legitimacy of the EU project as a whole. It's clear that member countries use the EU as a blame-laundering mechanism to pass domestically unpopular laws, but the forcing of this vote under the urgency procedure that requires absolute majority to reject, on the last EP session before summer break is so blatant that it might awaken people that might've overlooked the s…

> it might awaken people that might've overlooked the structural failures of the EU and finally radicalise them Haha, no. As long as there is bread and circus, nothing wil happen.

This removes circus from the children.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#76

Post by bluebarbet »

superloika wrote: post #28
budududuroiu wrote: post #6

Roberta Metsola's actions this week jeopardise the legitimacy of the EU project as a whole. It's clear that member countries use the EU as a blame-laundering mechanism to pass domestically unpopular laws, but the forcing of this vote under the urgency procedure that requires absolute majority to reject, on the last EP session before summer break is so blatant that it might awaken people that might've overlooked the s…

> it might awaken people that might've overlooked the structural failures of the EU and finally radicalise them Haha, no. As long as there is bread and circus, nothing wil happen.

This comment does not add any value to the discussion.

PS: Sorry, but "haha nothing matters" cynicism does NOT add anything to the discussion. In fact it straightforwardly breaks a whole bunch of HN guidelines: "Be curious", "Don't be generically negative", "Don't be snarky", "Don't post shallow dismissals", etc. This forum is supposed to be better than the R-site.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#77

Post by xaitv »

teekert wrote: post #38

This is a nice piece of democracy right here: "a measure it had rejected twice in March. Although a majority of voting Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) actually opposed the regulation (314 against, 276 in favor, 17 abstentions), the motion to reject it failed to secure the required absolute majority of 361 votes. As a result, mass scanning is now permitted again until 2028." "Oh no we can't get a majority to…

What I don't understand, based on this: https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/195775 the votes are the other way around, with the majority being for. I'm guessing that site has it reversed then or I don't fully understand the proposal? Looking at which politicians from my country voted "no" on this site it seems to be mostly the ones that I'd expect to vote "yes", so that would support this site just having the options reversed.

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#79

Post by preisschild »

carlesfe wrote: post #67
wiradikusuma wrote: post #61

From Google: "The law seeks to require digital platforms and messaging services (like WhatsApp and Gmail) to automatically scan users' private messages, emails, and photos to detect and report illegal content" -- EU policy makers are really honest people, hats off to them. There's no way politicians in my country allow their chats to be scanned, because they're very corrupt.

EU politicians are exempt from this measure. They thought it all the way through. (Edit: seems that the statement above applies to ChatControl 2.0, not the approved text. Apologies.)

Can you cite the text where it says this?

Re: EU Parliament greenlights Chat Control 1.0

#80

Post by vrganj »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #78
vrganj wrote: post #23

Brought to you - as always - by the Conservatives. Conservatism is just fascism with a slightly nicer image.

Eh, the commies are pretty good at this too. Best analogy for Chat Control is really a digital Stasi.

I mean sure, but there's no meaningful commie contingent in the EU.

The war on privacy at the EU level always comes from conservatives.

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