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Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

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Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#71
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the years, many firms have poured many $millions into vertical farms. If you're growing extreme -value crops - marijuana, or maybe exotic salad greens for Michelin-starred restaurants - that can actually work. Otherwise, you're trying to compete with millions of square miles of naturally sun-lit dirt, and extremely efficient modern agro-tech stacks. Bankruptcy awaits. > just technologist delusions of mine? I'd b…

> you're trying to compete with millions of square miles of naturally sun-lit dirt You're begging the question with this statement. Indoor growing is used when you don't have access to this kind of resource. There are many locations where access to land or suitable conditions is restricted. CEA has been used profitably for a long time, and the most valuable crops are mushrooms and leafy greens, not exotic or illegal…

> ... when you don't have access to ...

These days, "don't have access" is a micro-market. Everywhere else, indoor growing has to compete with the cost & delay of importing. Last I heard, even Antarctic bases are only growing a few fresh veggies - 99% of their food is imported. (Well, plant-based food. They might do a fair bit of fishing.)

> CEA has been used ...

My comment was replying to magemaster's "large scale vertical farms ... just technologist delusions".* Vs. greenhouses - which can be little more than plastic sheeting over light wooden framing over sunlit dirt - yes, those have far saner economics. Mushrooms - which can be grown in dark caves without dirt using prehistoric technology - are also a very different thing.

*To quote Wikipedia - "The modern concept of vertical farming was proposed in 1999 by Dickson Despommier, professor of Public and Environmental Health at Columbia University.[2] Despommier and his students came up with a design of a skyscraper farm that could feed 50,000 people."

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#72
post #3

The hard truth these days is that the work of bee keeping is like 80% keeping the mites in check. Plus all current treatments render the honey inedible so you can only do it at the end of the season.

I did some light research on the topic.

Wiki page about the specific parasite that affects honey bees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor

On that page there mention of "honey bee genetics" as a form of parasite control. It is called "Varroa sensitive hygiene". Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_sensitive_hygiene

    > Varroa sensitive hygiene (VSH) is a behavioral trait of honey bees (Apis mellifera) in which bees detect and remove bee pupae that are infested by the parasitic mite Varroa destructor. VSH activity results in significant resistance to the mites.
It sounds like you need to buy better gene stock in your area. USDA started publishing about this finding in 1997, almost 30 years ago.

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#73

Check out Paul Stamets' research using Mycelium to give honeybees an immuneboost. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-32194-8

[flagged]

Why should I do anything but take your anonymous comment with a huge grain of salt. Is the irony completely lost here?

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#74
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are not native, how did plant propagate seeds? Flies? Wasps? Butterflies?

Amusingly, propagate has a horticultural, and non-horticultural meaning, and it's not obvious which one you're using there, because the bee's role is long over by the time the seed is ready to go out into the world. Pollen can be carried (as noted by sibling and you) by lots of different insects, and there's myriad solitary and other (by conventional standards) weird bee species around, plus lots of plants are happy…

Thanks for the detailed comment! I always heard that bees pollinate the vast majority of plants, so in the parent comment, I assumed incorrectly that the meaning was for bees in general being non native.

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are not native, how did plant propagate seeds? Flies? Wasps? Butterflies?

Native bees. Apis mellifera are introduced bees across most of the world. But yes, there are other pollinators like butterflies, moths, flies, birds, etc.

Makes sense, thanks!

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#76
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly, propagate has a horticultural, and non-horticultural meaning, and it's not obvious which one you're using there, because the bee's role is long over by the time the seed is ready to go out into the world. Pollen can be carried (as noted by sibling and you) by lots of different insects, and there's myriad solitary and other (by conventional standards) weird bee species around, plus lots of plants are happy…

Thanks for the detailed comment! I always heard that bees pollinate the vast majority of plants, so in the parent comment, I assumed incorrectly that the meaning was for bees in general being non native.

Yeah, there's a claim I've seen about 'every third mouthful of food' that humans eat needs honeybees, and that may well be true.

I'm in Australia, and we only got Varroa in 2022, and it was suppressed for about a year before a regrettable 'oh well' attitude overwhelmed us. The last couple of years has seen a breathtaking impact.

Anecdata - one of my five hives is still struggling on.

Australia's experience since 2022 had (I thought) laid to rest a lot of the 'It's not varroa that's the problem' claims from armchair analysts.

But yes, per my earlier point, lots of our tree crops require honeybees to be shipped in - just because of broadacre / monoculture style farming. Well, along with honey production being its own industry - so they need to follow the nectar, and change up the flavours a bit, but also some trees just don't produce useful amounts of nectar but absolutely require a lot of pollinators for a few weeks only (almonds / peaches I think fit this category).

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#77

Honeybees are not native to North America. It is great and currently necessary we use them the way we do. It makes one wonder in the age of AI and evolving farm practices, can we start finding ways to cultivate already-climate-adapted native bees to do the work? Can we leverage adaptations for specific crops? I get it that honeybees work great at pollinating monoculture fields, etc., but that does not change the fact…

Did you just ask if we could use AI to create new/better honey bees?

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#78
I grew up on a farm on which the apiary and all connected with it was a major part of the farm's output. Honey, beeswax, nukes (a queen and 10K or so worker bees as a starter colony, sold to other apiaries in the spring if they'd had too many winter losses), fertilizing services (drop a couple colonies off at a berry farm after dark, pick the colonies up two weeks later, profit!) and other products.

It's been over ten years since I spent any serious time with bees, but the bees themselves did a great job on the varroa mites. Sentinel bees at the hive entrance would pick the mites off the incoming bees. The problem was if the colony had a solid floor the mites would just climb back onto the next bee that passed nearby. If the solid colony floor was replaced with a mesh, the mites would fall through to the ground below while the bees could still go about their business.

We would still sometimes treat for varroa, but making it easier for the bees to handle varroa how they had evolved to was the first line of defence.

This was Canada, regular Italian bees, hard winter kills of whatever wasn't properly winterized.

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#79

Honeybees are not native to North America. It is great and currently necessary we use them the way we do. It makes one wonder in the age of AI and evolving farm practices, can we start finding ways to cultivate already-climate-adapted native bees to do the work? Can we leverage adaptations for specific crops? I get it that honeybees work great at pollinating monoculture fields, etc., but that does not change the fact…

Did you just ask if we could use AI to create new/better honey bees?

Grok, pollinate the flowers

Re: Spider venom kills varroa mites without harming honeybees

#80
post #3

The hard truth these days is that the work of bee keeping is like 80% keeping the mites in check. Plus all current treatments render the honey inedible so you can only do it at the end of the season.

I did some light research on the topic. Wiki page about the specific parasite that affects honey bees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor On that page there mention of "honey bee genetics" as a form of parasite control. It is called "Varroa sensitive hygiene". Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_sensitive_hygiene > Varroa sensitive hygiene (VSH) is a behavioral trait of honey bees (Apis melli…

I have bees myself. Beekeepers and scientists all over the world are trying to breed better bees with improved VSH. While it may work in a laboratory, it does not seem to work consistently in practice. You cannot just buy a "VSH colony/queen" and no longer treat Varroa mites. Even with careful breeding, the VSH behavior often vanishes (or is greatly reduced) after 1-2 generations.

Of course having only colonies with a strong VSH would be the end goal so we no longer need to treat our bees. But until then, better treatments are needed.

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