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My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

andrewkelley.me

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Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#161

Post by galangalalgol »

tuckwat wrote: post #134
lins1909 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of strange to not engage with any of the points made in the article. Unlike you, I don't think the post makes them look childish at all. I think it raises a lot of valid points and makes me want to use Zig more.

Do you have bias? I'm not saying I don't have some hidden bias but I have no skin in the game. I don't use Bun or Zig or plan to. My reflection comes after reading Jarred's post yesterday, which I found interesting, and then Andrew's today. I just pasted this article into an LLM to understand the tone and the summary is: > The overall tone is deeply personal, cathartic, biting, and polemical, with flashes of humor an…

I think I have some bias. I like rust. I like using opus, I don't want to use zig, don't see the point for it, but I find it aesthetically pleasing. I don't use JavaScript I wish it would disappear. If I did ise JavaScript I wouldn't run it on bun. Some of those tilt me either way. I agree with the LLMs take on the tone. The result of the two posts is that I think Jarred is a poopyhead, andrew is a bit childish but genuine and I'd probably like him, and I still won't use zig or bun or JavaScript. I plan to keep using rust and opus.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#162

Post by mtndew4brkfst »

grahar64 wrote: post #133
dzonga wrote: post #60

articles like these are needed - if you've to call people out - do it. the tech industry's fake politeness has caused pain and confusion. & yeah - I had already stayed off Bun before the whole rewrite, but now more reasons.

I think people have read so much corporate PR posts they think that is a rule of how to post online. This post is his personal blog, he is a human writing what he thinks. If this was a tweet people would be fine with it, but it is a blog so he should make it corporate-y

"If this was a tweet people would be fine with it"

Actually, some folks do care about how the leader and public face of a project conduct themselves regardless of venue. If a different public figure ie some CEO wrote something reprehensible about some particular ethnic group, is it more excusable or forgivable if they did it on their personal social media account rather than the company blog? Same basic thing.

Public writing in a personal space is still public writing. Being held accountable for publicly stated views is an inherent part of sharing them in public, no?

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#163

Post by lifthrasiir »

lins1909 wrote: post #148
tuckwat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have bias? I'm not saying I don't have some hidden bias but I have no skin in the game. I don't use Bun or Zig or plan to. My reflection comes after reading Jarred's post yesterday, which I found interesting, and then Andrew's today. I just pasted this article into an LLM to understand the tone and the summary is: > The overall tone is deeply personal, cathartic, biting, and polemical, with flashes of humor an…

Uhm, I'm very confused by the last part of your comment. You put it into an LLM to...understand the tone? Is that supposed to convince me of something?

Reality check. The confirmation that the author is not alone in having this particular feeling by using an LLM as a proxy.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#164

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

lins1909 wrote: post #148
tuckwat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have bias? I'm not saying I don't have some hidden bias but I have no skin in the game. I don't use Bun or Zig or plan to. My reflection comes after reading Jarred's post yesterday, which I found interesting, and then Andrew's today. I just pasted this article into an LLM to understand the tone and the summary is: > The overall tone is deeply personal, cathartic, biting, and polemical, with flashes of humor an…

Uhm, I'm very confused by the last part of your comment. You put it into an LLM to...understand the tone? Is that supposed to convince me of something?

I guess they use an LLM to work out the tone of prose they read. These are strange times.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#165

Post by csande17 »

Bun's bundler claimed the bottom place in my recent analysis of how JavaScript tools handle generating inline script tags[1], because despite making lofty promises about being able to bundle applications into standalone HTML files, it produced a baffling combination of spurious syntax errors and miscompilations when presented with tricky code.

I'm pretty sure the version I tested was the Zig one (have they made a stable release of the Rust rewrite yet?). So I can definitely see how Bun's move-fast-and-break-things philosophy would have been a poor fit for the Zig community, even prior to the Rust rewrite.

[1] https://carter.sande.duodecima.technology/inline-script-pitf...

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#166

Post by aureate »

Am I right in thinking the Bun rewrite hasn't actually been released yet? There was a big kerfuffle when it was merged to master and people seemed to be behaving like that meant it was all done and dusted (as does this article), but it looks like the last release is still 1.3.14 from April so presumably general users are still on the Zig version? Is there a timeline for release?

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#167

Post by tialaramex »

jdw64 wrote: post #3

I read the post and roughly summarized it as: 1.It felt uncomfortable that Bun was presented as a representative example of Zig. From the internal Zig perspective, it looked more like a bad example of how to use Zig. 2.It felt uncomfortable that they spoke as if Rust prevents things that could actually be handled by Zig's style guide. 3.I(OP,andrewkelly) don't think badly of Jarred as a person, but after signing a co…

> 2.It felt uncomfortable that they spoke as if Rust prevents things that could actually be handled by Zig's style guide.

"Handled by Zig's style guide" ends up as "Don't make mistakes" which is entirely useless advice. C++ spent years trying to make out that this constitutes useful guidance before gradually accepting that people aren't in fact going to stop making mistakes, you need to provide a better language and tools.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#168

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

lins1909 wrote: post #148
tuckwat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have bias? I'm not saying I don't have some hidden bias but I have no skin in the game. I don't use Bun or Zig or plan to. My reflection comes after reading Jarred's post yesterday, which I found interesting, and then Andrew's today. I just pasted this article into an LLM to understand the tone and the summary is: > The overall tone is deeply personal, cathartic, biting, and polemical, with flashes of humor an…

Uhm, I'm very confused by the last part of your comment. You put it into an LLM to...understand the tone? Is that supposed to convince me of something?

They phrased it poorly, but from context it seems clear they intend the LLM as a less biased third-party measure of the tone which agrees with their own assessment.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#170

Post by roetlich »

grahar64 wrote: post #116
daishi55 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just one long ad hominem

I don't think you are using that right. Saying someone is bringing a bad vibe to your project, as the point he has a bad vibe is just stating the conclusion. Like if someone calls you a bad programmer and doesn't hire you as a programmer, isn't ad hominem

No, the discussion started with a the article from Bun, stating that rust has some technical advantages for them. The response from the Zig creator is a bunch of personal attacks directed at one guy, like calling him a stinky manager. All of these are fully unrelated to which language is better for Bun.

This is like the textbook definition of an ad hominem.

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