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EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

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Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#161

Post by account42 »

paisawalla wrote: post #136
budududuroiu wrote: post #91

The Internet Watch Foundation, an organisation funded by almost all of big tech, is already at work pushing for client side scanning next [1], for the children, of course. [1] https://www.iwf.org.uk/policy-work/preventing-the-upload-of-...

> an organisation funded by almost all of big tech Agreed, and this sucks, but what should be done about this? Some NGO called "We Stop Bad Guys" approaches your company with its hand out. You have two choices: 1. kick down some money, get great headlines 2. don't, and then have it known that you don't support stopping Bad Guys -- then maybe write ten thousand never-to-be-read words about how your position is actuall…

How is it rational? What's going to stop a different We Stop Really Bad Guys NGO from showing up next. Corporations are perfectly capable of not getting involved when they don't want to.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#162

Post by klipklop »

Of course they are. They will boil the frogs slowly until they get the frog soup they so desire. Each time the water gets a little bit too hot (public outrage) they will turn it back down for a bit.

Every major global region has this problem. I would tell you the slope is slippery, but I already fell down and cracked my head open.

Joking aside, this privacy invasion will keep happening until there are laws passed (a foundational constitution perhaps?) that make it impossible to attempt to even create such laws/rules.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#163

Post by account42 »

slg wrote: post #153
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could cut the legs out of this effort by capturing the part of the population that does have an honest desire to protect children by offering an alternative that actually protects children. There are many, many things we can do that actually protect children -- and we generally already do them. That's the nature of the problem. After you do all of the things that are reasonable and cost effective, it solves 90%…

>There are many, many things we can do that actually protect children -- and we generally already do them. That's the nature of the problem. After you do all of the things that are reasonable and cost effective, it solves 90% of the problem, 95% of the problem, 99% of the problem, but never 100% of the problem. Genuinely, how do you expect someone concerned about child sex trafficking to receive this? "Oh, good point…

Anyone who things automated scanning of private messages will have any effect on sex trafficking of any kind is already beyond all reason.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#164

Post by account42 »

inigyou wrote: post #16

The Chat Control 1.0 rule is simply that organisations like Meta are allowed to scan messages if they want to. In other words your Facebook messages are not private from Facebook. Surely we already knew and expected that. Chat Control 2.0 is the worrying one because it mandates scanning and bans E2EE. These two things should not have both been given the same branding.

> The Chat Control 1.0 rule is simply that organisations like Meta are allowed to scan messages if they want to. In other words your Facebook messages are not private from Facebook. Surely we already knew and expected that.

Actually, I would expect the EU to limit the ways in which these platforms can access private messages as much as technically possible. That's the only thing that would be in line with recent privacy legislation.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#165

Post by account42 »

yubblegum wrote: post #18
artisinal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in the future cars will not only record your face but also listen in for hate speech. Most cars have SOS and GPS modules so calling the police if someone in the car shouts a slur is just connecting some code together.

Why do you think this is only going to be in Europe? This will be the global norm modulo some astroid hitting earth or civilizational crash. The trajectory is crystal clear: access to information (AI), control over personal finance (CBDC), privacy of personal communications (handful of big tech MITM in everything), metered social interactions (today China, tomorrow the world over).

Well there besides the asteroid there is also the option that involves the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#166

Post by account42 »

vondur wrote: post #111
niels8472 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Chinese constitution: Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China shall enjoy freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, procession and demonstration.

Hahah, that's also what the Constitution of the Soviet Union stated. Tell that to everyone that got sent to the Gulag's for speaking up.

That's his point.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#167

Post by imtringued »

slg wrote: post #153
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could cut the legs out of this effort by capturing the part of the population that does have an honest desire to protect children by offering an alternative that actually protects children. There are many, many things we can do that actually protect children -- and we generally already do them. That's the nature of the problem. After you do all of the things that are reasonable and cost effective, it solves 90%…

>There are many, many things we can do that actually protect children -- and we generally already do them. That's the nature of the problem. After you do all of the things that are reasonable and cost effective, it solves 90% of the problem, 95% of the problem, 99% of the problem, but never 100% of the problem. Genuinely, how do you expect someone concerned about child sex trafficking to receive this? "Oh, good point…

Child sex trafficking is primarily a law enforcement problem. You actually need someone to solve the case, visit and arrest the perpetrator.

Mass surveillance doesn't actually solve the problem because of how rare it is. Your signal is 99.99% noise in the first year and 100% noise in the second year after people get caught on the scanned platforms and switch to unscanned platforms.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#168

Post by imtringued »

slg wrote: post #141
InvertedRhodium wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree - "think of the children" is not primarily a rational argument, it's more an emotional and political lever that is used to frame anyone in opposition as being opposed to more child safety, which is very obviously a bad thing. It creates a moral asymmetry where one group is "defending children" and another group is "defending an abstract concept", but group A wins out primarily due to millions of…

>It creates a moral asymmetry where one group is "defending children" and another group is "defending an abstract concept", but group A wins out primarily due to millions of years of human evolution. It has very little (IMO) to do with the actual underlying concepts being debated. You aren't actually engaging with why group A wins. Those "millions of years of human evolution" actually instilled in people a desire to…

Do they though? In this debate only the facade of appearing to desire to protect children matters. They don't actually need to protect children.

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#169

Post by account42 »

artisinal wrote: post #26
ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drive you straight to prison

It is cheaper for the government to just lock the car doors for the length of your sentence. Saves them space in prison. You are allowed to use the McDrive twice a day. The windows will drop 8 centimeters, enough for a Big Mac.

And the revolution starts with a guy who just really wanted burger king?

Re: EU now one step away from reviving private message scanning rules

#170

Post by imtringued »

slg wrote: post #145
msm_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, just like it instilled a desire to consume a lot of calorie-dense food. "Desire to protect the children" in this case is a knee-jerk reaction, or a thought terminating cliche. For example, how many children will this actually protect? How many children will this harm? How many adults will be harmed by inevitable side-effects that arise? Those questions are not discussed or even considered.

Because those questions are meaningless to many people if you aren't offering any solution of your own to address their concerns. For the people who genuinely care about this issue, an obvious response you will get is "how many children are you willing to allow to be sex trafficked to preserve your privacy?" You can't win a debate by claiming your concerns invalidate their concerns. You need to actually engage with t…

Ok, but by this logic all freedom of citizens can be taken away, because it could lead to a single child being trafficked.

The end result is that even the children you're trying to protect are now under permanent surveillance of an authoritarian government where sex trafficking probably still happens, but the law permits the government to wrongfully ruin more people's lives than are saved by the claimed "noble" act.

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