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I think I have LLM burnout

alecscollon.com

281–290 of 391 posts

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accounting is desperate for accountants because they’re necessary for legal and compliance reasons. Join up today!

Did you make the move yourself from software development? I'm considering a move into economics lately but I wouldn't want to leave IT completely i.e. saying bye to a 15y career in software and all the stuff I learnt along the way. Ideally I'd find something in between but I don't know how feasible that is.

Well, it’s maybe 120 credit-hours for an Economics bachelor’s degree if you don’t have any prior college credits or degrees, less if you’ve got prior art to build on (or a second major usually only requires the ECON classes).

Fun fact, if you see in the course catalog that’s listed as Remote/Online, check the scheduled times; if there are some, they’re either mandatory meeting times or in-person testing days; if there’s none, then it’s a fully asynchronous class you can THEORETICALLY complete in parallel to your job, whenever you like.

You could dip your toe in the water very slowly the first term and set calendar reminders for the drop & withdraw deadlines. At worst you don’t like it, at middling you realize you can’t multitask school and work, at best you pass the course. One step closer: wax on, wax off.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#282

The reason I'm getting LLM burnout is from dealing with the obvious neutering and opaque downgrading of all the top models. Prior to the last 12mos AI companies were hell bent on squeezing out the best results from mediocre models. But... now that the top models have progressed, those same AI companies have switched their efforts into reducing the computation (cost of a producing a result) as much as possible without…

You sure about that? Maybe it is reality hitting expectations after the initial “holy shit” wears off

Smart people have been falling into this trap as long as LLMs have hit production. Supposedly early internal versions of GPT-4 had "sparks of AGI" but the public version was "dumbed down for safety"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbIk7-JPB2c

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#283

I don't think I have a "burnout", but LLMs are really exhausting due to amount of pressure they generate. No one is really pushing me to increase my workload, but at every moment there is always something ready, done by my clankers or clankers of other people that I could be unblocking. In the past (before LLMs) it was already hard to keep up, but now it feels like there's 10x more things waiting at any given time, a…

> In the past (before LLMs) it was already hard to keep up, but now it feels like there's 10x more things waiting at any given time, and there could be 10x more if everyone just "optimized" and streamlined processes fed the AI even more tasks in parallel faster.

I find LLMs to help me manage the unrealistic workload I have, because at least now it's feasible instead of just getting more work piled on top of me with a never ending backlog (that people actually expect me to thin, not let grow). Add on top of that colleagues that would have death by commitee'd many ideas and now just have to argue against actual MVPs that work instead of ideas (or can be proven to not work and discarded without wasting time on them in some cases), and I don't even hate my job as much!

It's just that to ensure that the technology is not a net negative, I need millions upon millions of tokens every single day (tool runs, adversarial reviews, testing), but once you get that inflection point, alongside needing a good enough model, the floor for which currently I'd say GLM 5.2 on Max reasoning reaches, or use something like SOTA Anthropic/OpenAI models, it becomes a pretty good way of working. That said if you have missing pieces there (e.g. using cheap models that aren't very good), the curve of getting stuff done can go downwards and you'll just end up with a lot of slop - useless docs, bad code and an ever increasing amount of technical debt.

On average, each task that I do, needs about 15 minutes to 2 hours of planning and making the agents explore the codebase and refine the plans first.

Curiously, in my case this leads to less burnout cause I can actually pause and grab a drink, meal or go for a walk, while parallel agents do the work, once I've planned things well enough and have dispatched something that will work for 1-4 hours. I don't have to review their output immediately once they finish but can just batch things.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> done by my clankers or clankers of other people I'm getting so many requests to review LLM-generated documents - planning docs, docs intended for end-users, project docs, business plan docs. A team member sent me a zip file with about 30 LLM generated documents in it the other day and asked if I could review them right away. And a lot of it was just repetition and/or stuff that was just out of left field, made-up,…

Wait, what? I thought everyone agrees that modern models post September 2025 (or whenever Opus or whatever 5.6789 was released) do not hallucinate, make things up, contradict themselves and can review their own output into perfection regardless of task, goal or context???? /s

What a take with no nuance.

> do not hallucinate

They do, just less. To the degree of being usable, as long as there are guardrails and they're used responsibly. For example, if there's code being output, there should be type checking and compilation, as well as code tests that prove that it works or that it doesn't - seeing how abysmal code coverage is in most of the projects I've seem, for whatever reason people thought that they didn't really need it much. They were wrong.

This also implies you need SOTA models on max reasoning.

> make things up

Same as above. Ideally you'd give them some way to verify their claims, like web search or browsing and referencing docs, Jira tickets etc., basically improve the signal to noise ratio.

> contradict themselves

They do so way less than before, as long as the above is true.

> can review their own output into perfection

They are pretty good at reviewing things, especially if you make them do adversarial review! It will never be perfect, but can be close in quality to human output (e.g. the code they produce, when used properly and with intent, is better than the code I've seen many developers write and ship before LLMs were a thing).

This also more or less scales with how much compute you give them - three parallel review agents will turn one output artifact into something good with higher confidence than two, and definitely better than with no review. There's a cost vs quality balance and it seems that all those xhigh and max reasoning modes are still geared way too much towards cost, instead of quality. So you have to make up for that shortcoming yourself.

> regardless of task, goal or context????

Garbage in, garbage out. I won't be an asshole and say that you're holding it wrong, nor will I say that anyone should listen to the claims marketing AI (absolutely delusional takes, meant to attract investors), but we're slowly getting to a better position in regards to LLMs, year by year.

It's just a shame that the peak of inflated expectations hit while the technology still hasn't fully plateaued and reached whatever its ceiling is.

I probably also shouldn't ignore the fact that some people will not care about any of it and send AI generated slop verbatim and to an outside observer there's no way to easily tell apart the difference between the two, unless you make a technical report contain exact references to where the data is sourced from, for example (and then either verify the references yourself, or make another agent do it).

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#285
I’ve had it three times already in the last 2 years and it is something real. Dizziness and depressive swings is the first that comes, then comes memory loss and finally trouble with speech.

At this point you should stop risking to burn your central cognitive capacity. Be advised.

Note: myself a passionate Claude code user with multi agent parallel approach to dev. Plus 30 yrs of various oldskool dev experience. My blood and sugar and all tests are all within norm, and I bike and swim regularly. I’m not a major drinker and try to avoid alcohol in general. I count 25 trees outside my window and I’m not on any amphétamine pill such as Adderall.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#286
Not to minimise the author’s struggle but it sounds like they have relatively minor qualms about the tone of AI text. There are many people, myself included, questioning if this career is still for them. Giving up on writing code as a hobby. That sounds closer to the definition of burnout to me.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#287

I’m currently doing a project with someone who only uses LLMs, and it’s exhausting and mentally draining. Whenever I give feedback on something, the answer is just “let me tell Claude”. The person has no understanding of how everything works, and most of the code reflects that. The other day he hardcoded in a demo mode, simply because he didn’t even know how to set up a local environment and set environment variables…

I remember working with people like this before AI and it was annoying but they struggled with productivity because they didn't understand what they were working on enough to produce good code efficiently, so the problem usually took care of itself. Now these people can thrive because LLM coding encourages the incurious and punishes the deep thinker.

It punishes the inflexible deep thinker, perhaps. If you can’t figure out how to use an incredibly powerful tool to your advantage, how deeply are you thinking, really?

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know if you are serious, but why become part of the problem? Why not just review a single document quickly, find an error which invalidates the document, and send it back saying "Policy paper 1 mentions X as being on the business plan for Y, it's not on the plan, please can you fix."

Because they'll just paste your remarks in their llm, let it correct the text and send it back to you.

[deleted]

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to just run up against the insanity that is tokenmaxxing every moment of the day. When people are incentivized (upon pain of firing) to get the LLM to vomit out as much as possible, they're hardly going to stop and ponder if schlepping the slop over the wall is acceptable if the alternative is a pink slip. Which is going to win?

We employees need to remember that most software projects fail. So the work we produce should have lower value than we give it. We also need to be motivated to stay in our jobs. Most developers like their projects and value their work. But the chances are that it's for nothing. Many developers know they work on bad products (gambling industry, military, surveillance, whatever) and so it's here that they focus on thei…

The 20% policy at Google is effectively dead.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#290
post #257
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are generally two kinds of people: Those who like having a finished thing. Product people. These people love LLMs. Those who love the process of building a thing, working through a problem, learning something new. Finishing a project is generally not required. For them LLMs are soul sucking hell.

Yeah, the people that recognize progress is through effort and mastery, and those that would gladly do away with effort, quality be damned.

This is just a purity test disguised in high minded rhetoric. Defining "quality" in practice is both impractical and a matter of opinion. Building something first, and making it better later, is it's own form of quality.
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