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I think I have LLM burnout

alecscollon.com

221–230 of 391 posts

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#221

I've started feeling slightly physically ill when I read Opus output for hours straight. This article rings very true for me. I've started complaining about it with my team; at least have a personal style guide in your agent rules that eliminates emdashes, the "it's not X, it's Y"s, the long lists of modifiers before the noun, using the word "land" to mean finish, etc. I hope this is just a phase of adolescent LLMs.

"That's such a clever way to see things! Let's delve into that!"

The bots (all of them) seem to show patterns of overuse of specific phrases, words, and punctuation.

Some of those are the ones you mentioned. Another that I've been seeing lately is overuse of the term "gate", wherein: As a human, I know what a gate is. A gate is a thing that can be open, or that can be closed. It might be locked or unlocked. The path beyond the gate may be passable or impassable or nonexistent. The gate is just a gate, and the presence of the gate doesn't imply whether it is open or closed.

But in bot-speak, a gate only refers to a hard block -- an impassable construct. Like a fence or a wall, or even a lava-filled moat.

But while a lava-filled moat is intended to be impassable, the bot uses "gate" -- a thing that is designed to be passed -- to describe that same kind of obstacle.

That's misuse of the term, I think, based on decades of dealing with gates in reality: Usually when I encounter a gate that is closed, I just open it and walk through.

I do have instructions that tell the bot to avoid that usage of the word and it ignores them sometimes anyway.

But "gate" is just today's problem-word that comes to mind as I write this. Yesterday, it was something different. Tomorrow, it will be something else entirely.

The overall pattern here is that of gratingly-repetitive bullshit-grade jargon that doesn't fit to begin with.

"And that's the real, no-nonsense truth!"

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#223

I don't think I have a "burnout", but LLMs are really exhausting due to amount of pressure they generate. No one is really pushing me to increase my workload, but at every moment there is always something ready, done by my clankers or clankers of other people that I could be unblocking. In the past (before LLMs) it was already hard to keep up, but now it feels like there's 10x more things waiting at any given time, a…

> done by my clankers or clankers of other people I'm getting so many requests to review LLM-generated documents - planning docs, docs intended for end-users, project docs, business plan docs. A team member sent me a zip file with about 30 LLM generated documents in it the other day and asked if I could review them right away. And a lot of it was just repetition and/or stuff that was just out of left field, made-up,…

Seems like for such requests it's necessary to get some proof of work: require a meeting where for every artifact they sent you to review, they briefly explain the gist and point out the motivation for creating the artifact.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#224
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But ultimately you got into this craft to solve a problem. That is how the craft developed. And when you build a very complex elaborate system, it can still have interesting technical challenges, even for a developer with AI. You should shift your technical insight to a higher abstraction level, where the AI cannot help anymore.

What’s interesting to me is reasoning about the problem and its implementation. And that doesn’t stop at any abstraction level. Reasoning in the small is just as important as reasoning in the large. And the issue with LLMs is that their capacity for sound reasoning is limited. They are sloppy on any level. You can’t get them to be thorough and dependable in reasoning , regardless of the abstraction level.

Well I think the reasoning of coding agents on lower levels is good enough for me that I don't have to constantly be involved with it, only occasionally have to dive in and help out.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#225
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rate of generation/Rate of verification is a proxy for signal to noise ratios, just for work. That ratio has changed, and verification is the hard part. Verification is the point of all markets (and a decent part of human civ as well). And review isn’t cost less - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironies_of_Automation

> Rate of generation/Rate of verification is a proxy for signal to noise ratios Hopefully you mean Rate of verification/Rate of generation.

Yes! it should be:

Verification/generation

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> done by my clankers or clankers of other people I'm getting so many requests to review LLM-generated documents - planning docs, docs intended for end-users, project docs, business plan docs. A team member sent me a zip file with about 30 LLM generated documents in it the other day and asked if I could review them right away. And a lot of it was just repetition and/or stuff that was just out of left field, made-up,…

Feed it into an AI and ask it to adversarially criticize it, doc for doc, send back 30 responses in a zip folder, wipe hands on pants, return to HN.

This may actually be a solid way to tackle the bullshit asymmetry problem caused by drive-by LLM sloppers.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#227
It looks that what you describe is partly a "burnout", partly a "sickness" of always the same LLM tricks and output (including errors). Of course LLMs tend to go back to their initial training and even if you "teach" them right, the attention mechanism make them forget things that are not often used (that's the KV-cache) even if they can be important for you (there is room for improvements here).

That said, your reaction is totally human. I personally get sick of how the LLM writes prose with always the same tricks and formulas (even if you prompt it not to). Humans need variants and novelty, that's why fashion exists. We get fed up with repetition and after seeing too much green shoes, seeing a red one is so relieving :) (quick note: I don't like fashion - I'd advocate diversity and personal styles, not fashion)

But that's also the way you work with AI that might be part of the problem. Personally, I don't review all the code the AI generates. I look at it, and I review only the code that matters. And with time on a given project I review less and less because I trust more the architecture and ability of the AI to follow it. In my settings, the AI gets confined to the existing architecture (that we define together at the beginning of the project), and has to ask for authorization to create new things (that's when I review the more). Hoping this could help to avoid burnout myself...

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#229

is there any evidence that Alec Scollon, the first time blog author responsible for this post, even exists? look up the name. boo this post and the premise behind it.

I don't even know what percentage of people here are even real. I don't like any of this any more.

Re: I think I have LLM burnout

#230

I don't think I have a "burnout", but LLMs are really exhausting due to amount of pressure they generate. No one is really pushing me to increase my workload, but at every moment there is always something ready, done by my clankers or clankers of other people that I could be unblocking. In the past (before LLMs) it was already hard to keep up, but now it feels like there's 10x more things waiting at any given time, a…

> done by my clankers or clankers of other people I'm getting so many requests to review LLM-generated documents - planning docs, docs intended for end-users, project docs, business plan docs. A team member sent me a zip file with about 30 LLM generated documents in it the other day and asked if I could review them right away. And a lot of it was just repetition and/or stuff that was just out of left field, made-up,…

The only way to even start to counter that is to make it a firm company policy that if you use an LLM to hallucinate any documents you absolutely must thoroughly review them yourself before you send them to anybody else, and that you are still responsible for the quality of LLM-generated content.

Getting an LLM to vomit out a bunch of documents and sending them straight to another colleague is absolutely unacceptable behaviour.

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