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New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

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Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#21

Post by true_religion »

alephnerd wrote: post #18
zkmon wrote: post #17

What an irony - the once European colonies which depended on their motherlands to defend them in an alien land, now become a menace or estranged godfather to Europe.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

To be fair, the US is arguably even more of a menace to Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and even the descendent of native Americans who live in other countries (e.g. Mexico).

So the OPs point is internally consistent, even generalized past a mentality that 'reeks of West European supremacy'.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#22

Post by abcdxyz999 »

alephnerd wrote: post #18
zkmon wrote: post #17

What an irony - the once European colonies which depended on their motherlands to defend them in an alien land, now become a menace or estranged godfather to Europe.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

There is no real supremacy for western europeans since they built wealth by looting others. They didn't have to do that. Analogy would be some persons doing bank robbery, chain snatching, slavery etc instead of doing agriculture without slavery or working in a real ethical job which isn't cheating or looting or harming others to earn income or wealth.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#23

Post by abcdxyz999 »

abcdxyz999 wrote: post #22
alephnerd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

There is no real supremacy for western europeans since they built wealth by looting others. They didn't have to do that. Analogy would be some persons doing bank robbery, chain snatching, slavery etc instead of doing agriculture without slavery or working in a real ethical job which isn't cheating or looting or harming others to earn income or wealth.

They could have survived and thrived without colonialism or slavery or imperialism.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#24

Post by true_religion »

ianburrell wrote: post #15
karlshea wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A republic is a democracy.

Republic back then meant commonwealth with any form of government. The Dutch Republic was loose union of seven provinces. Republic changed to mean democratic government by representatives without monarch.

I don't think the meaning of republic changed, it just got conflated with democracy because we often say 'Democratic Republic', which requires at least in modern (18th century and beyond) terms that the common people vote to decide political direction or policy.

The US itself didn't start off very democratic, and could have stablized into a more oligarchic nation if it kept the notion of only allowing property owners to vote. Originally, land ownership wasn't a high barrier of entry, but in a more modern era corporations or oligarchs could own most of the land, and lease it out to prevent anyone else from gaining a vote.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#25

Post by alephnerd »

true_religion wrote: post #21
alephnerd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

To be fair, the US is arguably even more of a menace to Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and even the descendent of native Americans who live in other countries (e.g. Mexico). So the OPs point is internally consistent, even generalized past a mentality that 'reeks of West European supremacy'.

As an Asian American I strongly disagree, as do most others of us non-white Americans.

You guys don't actually understand how stuff actually works here or how we think. Our (Asian and Latino) ancestral countries economies are heavily tied with the US and leadership in our ancestral countries (excluding PRC ofc) remains either pro-Trump (look at the elections all across Latin America this year) or pro-America but Trump ambivalent (eg. Brazil and India).

And unlike Europe, at least in Asia all the states began arming and building strategic autonomy all the way back in the Obama 1 admin as part of the "Pivot to Asia".

You guys also don't seem to get the fact that the plurality of Americans have viewed Asia and not Europe as our most important partner since all the way back in 2009 [0].

We (the non-Europe aligned Americans) are increasingly climbing the rungs to become the decisionmaker's now in both parties.

Benign Atlanticism is dead in 2026. All that matters now is G2.

If that means both us and China squeezing Europe until it pops, so be it - when elephants fight it's the grass that gets stomped on.

[0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/americans-turn-their-backs-o...

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#26

Post by dreamcompiler »

There are a number of lesser-known chunks of American history like this.

One of my favorites is that Santa Fe has been the capital city of Nuevo Mexico since 1610. Acoma, another city in modern-day New Mexico, is about 500 years older still.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoma_Pueblo

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#27

Post by alephnerd »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #26

There are a number of lesser-known chunks of American history like this. One of my favorites is that Santa Fe has been the capital city of Nuevo Mexico since 1610. Acoma, another city in modern-day New Mexico, is about 500 years older still. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoma_Pueblo

> One of my favorites is that Santa Fe has been the capital city of Nuevo Mexico since 1610. Acoma, another city in modern-day New Mexico, is about 500 years older still

We were taught this in California in elementary school. Spanish colonial history actually tends to be taught at the same time or earlier than East Coast history in much of the American West (usually as "California" or "Texas" or "Colorado" history).

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#28

Post by r3trohack3r »

alephnerd wrote: post #18
zkmon wrote: post #17

What an irony - the once European colonies which depended on their motherlands to defend them in an alien land, now become a menace or estranged godfather to Europe.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

> America is European

When I hear this, I think of the philosophy, system of laws, language, etc. in America - and not the percentages we get when we segregate the American population by their ancestors.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#29

Post by alephnerd »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #28
alephnerd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

> America is European When I hear this, I think of the philosophy, system of laws, language, etc. in America - and not the percentages we get when we segregate the American population by their ancestors.

What I mean is we aren't going to give European states undue favoritism due to personal ties, which Brzeziński, Kissinger, and Albright all did in some shape or form.

After 1945, Western Europe got Pan-Atlanticism but now much more dynamic South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc got dictatorships, military rule, and single party rule.

Now that we are pivoting to our Hemisphere and Asia due to G2, the gloves have begun to fall off with regards to Europe.

US-Asia trade already dwarfs US-Europe trade, and Europe is a secondary concern compared to G2.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#30

Post by timc3 »

reaperducer wrote: post #14

New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony I guess it's a secret to the Brits and the BBC. We learned about Swedish colonies in the Delaware Valley area in fifth grade history class. So secret that it had its own U.S. postage stamp, as shown at the top of TFA. There's lots of things that people learned in elementary school in the UK that I don't know about. That doesn't made them a secret.

Its just a stupid headline isnt it, I am British born and knew about it but then again I also live in Sweden and like learning about history.
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