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John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

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41–50 of 320 posts

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#41

Shout out to Louis Rossmann for doing a ton of work on Right to repair. He started a website called Consumer Rights Wiki to document anti-consumer practices. https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page He's also involved with FULU Foundation which has a bounty of 25k to get Ring cameras working without Amazon's servers. https://bounties.fulu.org/bounties/ring-video-doorbells

The man is an icon.

Reminds me of old internet, when activists we doing it for The User.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, are 35hp tractors illegal under emissions rules? Then why even manufacture them and cripple them?

Tractors are legal above 25hp but it requires DPF, and at I want to say about 75, possibly more than that. Farmers generally hate DPF systems and will disable them the microsecond they get the right to repair. >Then why even manufacture them and cripple them? They cripple them because they know people want bigger tractor without emission control so they sell it as a less powerful tractor and then just expect people t…

As a tractor owner. Two things, the DPF & SCR (>=75hp) on a tractor is not a great idea --

1) Tractors are typically owned by low margin businesses (i.e. farmers) that need to be repaired in the field AND need to be repaired quickly, else you loose a crop. Adding complexity to tractors literally can cost the farm.

2) The actual emissions reduced is questionable. Tractors run significantly less than a truck, like 50-100x less often. Further there are at least 2x more trucks sold per year

3) To run the SCR system, the engine had to run hot for like 20 minutes burning extra fuel and required DEF (yet more input costs)

3) The emissions they are trying to reduce with the these are likely not excessively harmful from a tractor; largely because most tractors who need an SCR system is >75hp, which also means they're typically used on a large farm (100+ acres). Which dissipates the risks substantially.

For reference my 2022 Kubota tractor repeatedly had issues with the DPF / SCR system, mostly the software to enforce environmental rules. This lost us ~$20k one year due to the tractor being knocked out for a week (I was mid-cut for 140 acre hay, rained & rotted in the field post-cut).

For reference, I was very much ready to bypass the SCR system, but decided against it to keep the warranty. It had nothing to do about "right to repair", I figured out exactly how to bypass it.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I went through some data and John Deere makes 5B NET profit for the worse years. 10B for their best (only looking back 10 years). I wouldn’t be surprised these anticompetitive (as in anti “consumer”) has netted them north of 10B.

[flagged]

> google's ai says

Copy-pasting AI output is uninteresting and rude.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#45
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having operated a ~1995 7800 with flat glass and a ~2015 7270 with curved, I know which one I'm picking. Are automobiles using curved windshields so they have a stranglehold on the replacement windshield market? Your example doesn't pass my sniff test.

How is a curved window better on a tractor?

It's more aero :)

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#47
post #7

Bananas that stuff like this needs to get litigated in our society - if you asked 100 random people "should farmers be able to repair their equipment", you would get 100 yes's.

Except it is not the right question in a market economy like ours.

The right question is "what is the value (in dollars) of the right for farmers to repair their equipment".

If John Deere values it more than farmers, then they will sell tractors that farmers can't repair on their own, hoping to earn more on repairs rather than easier to repair tractors that are more expensive up front. Basic market economy.

It only needs to be litigated when there is a threat to the market itself (ex: monopolies) or when there are greater concerns (ex: the environment).

Here, it is a little bit of both. That John Deere is in a monopoly position, so a more repairable competitor can't develop (debated), that agriculture is critical (literally life and death) and John Deere has too much power over it, and if the "right to repair" is a fundamental right.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#49
post #7

Bananas that stuff like this needs to get litigated in our society - if you asked 100 random people "should farmers be able to repair their equipment", you would get 100 yes's.

Until you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to…

So replacing a part requires DRM but defeating environmental protections is as easy as turning a screw?

Surely I can’t be understanding that correctly given your overall position.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#50
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>probably $10 billion in profit Can you expand on this number or is it vibes-based? I'd be surprised if $10b profit was made from Service Advisor. Anecdata; we've had a handful of problems with our tractor "computers" recently, and we haven't been charged a dime by the dealer. Our newest is 2018 model so definitely not covered by warranty.

Not OP but I went through some data and John Deere makes 5B NET profit for the worse years. 10B for their best (only looking back 10 years). I wouldn’t be surprised these anticompetitive (as in anti “consumer”) has netted them north of 10B.

While I suspect this is actually profitable for them, you can't attribute 100% of their profit to anti-repair activities.

At a minimum, you'd have to break out profit from equipment sales vs service contracts.

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