The settlement changes nothing [0]
[0]: https://fighttorepair.substack.com/p/this-doesnt-break-the-m...
John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
21–30 of 320 posts
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#22Bananas that stuff like this needs to get litigated in our society - if you asked 100 random people "should farmers be able to repair their equipment", you would get 100 yes's.
Until you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to…
Right to repair doesn't change any of that. Farmers were adjusting that screw anyways, that was the entire point. I'm not mad at farmers for doing it, I'm mad at John Deere at cheating the system.
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand, are 35hp tractors illegal under emissions rules? Then why even manufacture them and cripple them?
Tractors are legal above 25hp but it requires DPF, and at I want to say about 75, possibly more than that. Farmers generally hate DPF systems and will disable them the microsecond they get the right to repair. >Then why even manufacture them and cripple them? They cripple them because they know people want bigger tractor without emission control so they sell it as a less powerful tractor and then just expect people t…
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is this prevented today or not by the denial of the right to repair?
It sounds like you are saying everyone is doing it today, so denying the right to repair doesn't affect the situation.
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Until you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to…
Right to repair doesn't change any of that. Farmers were adjusting that screw anyways, that was the entire point. I'm not mad at farmers for doing it, I'm mad at John Deere at cheating the system.
It's not John Deere that was doing that, just some Korean companies exploring the opportunity and importing to the US. John Deere is located in the US and too afraid of the whimsical interpretations of regulators to try something like that, I think.
There was no "screw" for the commercial John Deere tractors with emissions controls, that I know of, as that was locked down to prevent "repair."
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#25"...Deere will now be required to make diagnostic and repair tools available to equipment owners and independent repair shops..." This is only the tip of the iceberg. They make the parts deliberately proprietary to prevent competition. The classic example is curved cabin windows instead of flat commodity glass. Laissez-faire capitalism is efficient at extraction not productivity.
Having operated a ~1995 7800 with flat glass and a ~2015 7270 with curved, I know which one I'm picking. Are automobiles using curved windshields so they have a stranglehold on the replacement windshield market? Your example doesn't pass my sniff test.
How is a curved window better on a tractor?
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tractors are legal above 25hp but it requires DPF, and at I want to say about 75, possibly more than that. Farmers generally hate DPF systems and will disable them the microsecond they get the right to repair. >Then why even manufacture them and cripple them? They cripple them because they know people want bigger tractor without emission control so they sell it as a less powerful tractor and then just expect people t…
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is this prevented today or not by the denial of the right to repair? It sounds like you are saying everyone is doing it today, so denying the right to repair doesn't affect the situation.
If you're a US company the vagueness of emissions law likely prevents a US company from hazarding doing it and instead locking down the repair of their power trains to ensure emission compliance. Korean companies get away with it because they don't give much a shit if they're banned from import, it can always be washed through another foreign company. John Deere can't try that sort of thing since being a household-name US company is their bread and butter for commanding a premium in the first place.
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>You pretty clearly said everyone is currently bypassing this, otherwise companies would not be putting in larger engines.
Everyone is doing it on the import tractors with the screws. They are not doing it with John Deere tractors, which are locked down for emission compliance. John Deere is handicapped by the fact they're located in the US and regulators have more leverage on them to prevent the sort of right-to-repair which would enable emission bypassing.
>Do what? What is not happening today that you think would happen if people were given the right to repair?
What is happening today is people with John Deere are not able to unlock their tractor for repair and turn the "screw" like they can with import tractors. The very first thing they will do once they can "repair" is delete emissions controls. That's a big part of what the farmers were pissed about and why they wanted right to repair, they couldn't "repair" their tractor to not use DPF, etc on their domestic tractors.
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right to repair doesn't change any of that. Farmers were adjusting that screw anyways, that was the entire point. I'm not mad at farmers for doing it, I'm mad at John Deere at cheating the system.
It's not John Deere that was doing that, just some Korean companies exploring the opportunity and importing to the US. John Deere is located in the US and too afraid of the whimsical interpretations of regulators to try something like that, I think. There was no "screw" for the commercial John Deere tractors with emissions controls, that I know of, as that was locked down to prevent "repair."
Lot of armchair quarterbacking going on, on both sides. I'd love to hear an actual farmer weigh in on this.
Anyone in the room care to volunteer?
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is this prevented today or not by the denial of the right to repair? It sounds like you are saying everyone is doing it today, so denying the right to repair doesn't affect the situation.
If you're a US company the vagueness of emissions law likely prevents a US company from hazarding doing it and instead locking down the repair of their power trains to ensure emission compliance. Korean companies get away with it because they don't give much a shit if they're banned from import, it can always be washed through another foreign company. John Deere can't try that sort of thing since being a household-na…
Do what? What is not happening today that you think would happen if people were given the right to repair?
You pretty clearly said everyone is currently bypassing this, otherwise companies would not be putting in larger engines. Is that wrong?
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not John Deere that was doing that, just some Korean companies exploring the opportunity and importing to the US. John Deere is located in the US and too afraid of the whimsical interpretations of regulators to try something like that, I think. There was no "screw" for the commercial John Deere tractors with emissions controls, that I know of, as that was locked down to prevent "repair."
Lot of armchair quarterbacking going on, on both sides. I'd love to hear an actual farmer weigh in on this. Anyone in the room care to volunteer?
tractorbynet is one of the better forums for info on opinions on tractors by people that use them regularly
Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
#30Bananas that stuff like this needs to get litigated in our society - if you asked 100 random people "should farmers be able to repair their equipment", you would get 100 yes's.
Until you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to…
Doing that is already illegal and should be enforced using appropriate tools. We shouldn't be relying on unrelated technical measures to enforce laws.