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What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

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Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is different because it's a consumer-oriented activity whose actual effects are probably impossible to quantify Your perspective on software is that of a consumer, so you're not necessarily wrong. You're in the majority of people using software along with all those people having their "holy wars". I'm just saying it's not intrinsic to software. The majority of people who write software for a living are silent about…

Was this LLM-generated? Because the intent is garbled, each sentence going in a different direction from the previous. (So perhaps not LLM after all.)

> Was this LLM-generated? Because the intent is garbled, each sentence going in a different direction from the previous. (So perhaps not LLM after all.)

Quoting the entirety of your comment verbatim in case you edit it. It's poor form to overplay your hand and troll instead of discuss.

I flagged your reply, and I suggest anyone reading these should do the same. HN is really going off the rails allowing this, but I know it's hard to rein it all in. At the risk of becoming even more of a hive mind, I think we need users to pitch in some more.

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this LLM-generated? Because the intent is garbled, each sentence going in a different direction from the previous. (So perhaps not LLM after all.)

> Was this LLM-generated? Because the intent is garbled, each sentence going in a different direction from the previous. (So perhaps not LLM after all.) Quoting the entirety of your comment verbatim in case you edit it. It's poor form to overplay your hand and troll instead of discuss. I flagged your reply, and I suggest anyone reading these should do the same. HN is really going off the rails allowing this, but I kn…

> Your perspective on software is that of a consumer, so you're not necessarily wrong. You're in the majority of people using software along with all those people having their "holy wars".

What do either of those statements mean? You neither say what I am not necessarily wrong about, and the second sentence means that - everyone is using software? The majority and the minority are both doing something?

> The majority of people who write software for a living are silent about this because it's completely irrelevant to their lives.

I’m not sure if this is accurate. Programmers have opinion, taste-based arguments all the time, sometimes based on dubious assertions. People pay attention to the proclamations of Linus Torvalds or John Carmack even when sometimes they’re not necessarily based on evidence, and parrot it as prophecy. Though sure, they are also not the norm, and becoming a public figure changes one’s behavior. (Uncle Bob Martin appears to have turned into a Twitter crank in recent years, for example.)

> It's like this with all other creative work too. As they say "a poor craftsman blames his tools", but more generally improvisation is expected when you're supposed to know what you're doing.

Like what? What are you referring to? What does improvisation have to do with what you were just writing about?

> Professionals can't afford to be helpless.

What is making them helpless? What are they doing or not doing?

> In fact, that's why we have so many competing standards in technology to begin with.

Okay this might be relevant. So you’re saying what I was talking about- tech holy wars based on opinions and superstition- causes competing standards?

> Constant reinvention is the most boneheaded way to progress, but my point is that this is in direct opposition to everything you're saying.

What does constant reinvention have to do with anything? What is an example of reinvention?

> You seem to be insisting that there's ignorance where there is just apathy.

I am not saying that all of engineering is ignorant, I am simply making the banal and obvious observation that any field of human activity will contain pockets of emotion-based conclusions that might not reflect reality.

The original point is that even the most seemingly empirical, scientific, whatever, domain might still involve facets that aren’t so scientific.

What does apathy have to do with it? If you were to rebut my point, you can simply say, “no there is no ignorance.” Why are you contrasting it with apathy?

> For every one person whining, the internet has a chorus of hundreds.

What does this sentence mean? A chorus of hundreds not what, not whining? The internet is full of whining choruses.

> On the other side of the fence, there are dozens of people who could fix it in their sleep just ignoring it because it doesn't bother them that bad.

Fix what? Ignoring what? What are you referring to?

> That's what makes software so different from manufacturing plastic doodads at scale. You at least don't need a factory, but there are probably countless other reasons.

??? Countless other reasons for what? Why are you contrasting software with physical engineering in a way completely irrelevant to my prior comparison?

Finally, I haven’t even touched upon your original response, which starts with “All culture is shared ignorance.” Which, while sounding both profound and impressive at first, is meaningless. All culture is shared knowledge as well. All culture is share norms, mores, values. What does it all mean?

> HN is really going off the rails allowing this, but I know it's hard to rein it all in.

Allowing what? Allowing people to write things? Last I checked people flag plenty of posts, including trolling. Rein what all in? Trolling?

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#103

I think hate of plastics is an emergent form of elitism. Upwardly mobile middle/upper class people who've sort of "maxed out" the amount of personal identity they can buy with regular plastic things can unlock a new level of identity by deciding that plastics are bad for them and eliminating plastics from their life, a process which conveniently requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from the…

Health in general has always worked like this, from supplements, to organic food, to avoiding ultra-processed foods, to gluten-free diets, pretty much every popular health fad has no provable causative effect on health. Most of human behavior is irrational. If we were all perfectly rational, we would have healthy diet and exercise habits from the get go, and we'd have plenty of time to prepare food and exercise, beca…

You might want to rethink your position on avoiding ultra processed foods not having any positive health effects...

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#104
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can microplastics never get small enough to interact with T cells?

Once microplastics fall apart futher, to nano-plastic, it will start to get absorbed by T cells because they want to destroy any invaders. Once absorbed, T-Cell start to produce H2O2 to destroy anything they absorbed. Unfortunately, plastics are mostly chemically neutral and so, it cannot be destroyed like that. T-Cells produce more H2O2, eventually it leaks outside and start inflamation of surrunding tissue. There i…

So microplastics are indeed harmless!

(/s)

Too bad common discourse is too distracted to consider nanoplastics…

By the time the public tires of microplastics debates, they’ll be in no mood to relitigate nanoplastics

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#105
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from their peers No, it requires buying a whole new set of things to fit in with and be accepted by their peers, to distinguish themselves from the outgroup , the plastic users. I don’t necessarily believe this is some emergent elitism; I see it more as a modern religion with many many rules about eating and consumption (using plastic is now a sin). Li…

I don't get this whole attitude. Moving away from plastics in our kitchen was basically zero extra cost. Something busted, and we replaced it with non-plastic. Even bamboo scrubbers don't cost more than plastic (maybe even a little less) and I can't see any particular longevity difference. I think the fact that I volunteer to clean up trash on public lands and know that weathered plastic is the period worst period to…

> I don't get this whole attitude.

Sorry if I offended you; fwiw I was describing a phenomenon that I observe. My own attitude about this whole situation was left unspecified, so I’ll add a few notes here: I do actively pick up litter (sometimes bigtime: I cleared a derelict boat from a lake today!) and I try to not litter. I try to respect the planet. I do use a lot of plastic.

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from their peers No, it requires buying a whole new set of things to fit in with and be accepted by their peers, to distinguish themselves from the outgroup , the plastic users. I don’t necessarily believe this is some emergent elitism; I see it more as a modern religion with many many rules about eating and consumption (using plastic is now a sin). Li…

I've addressed this idea in a sibling comment. I think at least some superstition is inevitable in any subculture. Consider how many tech 'holy wars' might involve baseless beliefs about how a text editor or programming language or whatever being not only superior because of personal preference but because it's inherently more optimized. Treating anti-micro-plastics as a "religion" rather than a subculture based on a…

> Treating anti-micro-plastics as a "religion" rather than a subculture based on a meme deserves a bit more nuance.

Agreed, and I think we satisfy your two conditions and many more.

If I read you right, question 1 pertains to irrationality, and question 2 pertains to powerful storytelling.

OK here’s one example that shows you are on the right track, but there is still more.

My ex-wife is gluten free. This single choice never comes alone. in my ex-wife’s case, she also believes in the healing power of crystals and essential oils. (Irrationality checkbox); I cannot describe her vision of cosmic creation but I guarantee it involves witchcraft/folk magic and differs from traditional dogma (Storytelling checkbox).

BUT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT CHECKBOX! A good religion also prescribes a proper way to behave and act in the world for maximum benefit in the afterlife. In these newer religions, the afterlife is “the health of the planet”, so one must do everything in this life to ensure you do not hurt that future.

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like glass food storage containers are really expensive compared to plastic. And they still have plastic lids; like, I don't know what you'd even do without at least the seal-part being some kind of plastic, I guess you'd need to use natural-sourced wax to make it seal, or something? And on the topic of cost, I'm certain my kids have broken between 50 and 100 glass and ceramic drinking cups, storage containers…

I don't have a good answer for kids breaking stuff. And I do wonder what glues are used in the bamboo scrubbers, but I have no way of finding out. The scrapers are at least a solid single piece. They're either definitely bamboo or some very skillfully-engineered plastic to look exactly like it. ;) There are a lot of cheap glass blenders on [ONLINE STORE]. But yeah, the high end ones--maybe they're trying to avoid tha…

Around the time that I became a parent, I remember a friend’s wife emphatically telling me why one should never ever give fruit juice to a child. Later in the evening, she recounted an anecdote where a bout of constipation was cured with prune juice. I could not help myself from commenting “but isn’t that fruit?”

somehow this thread reminds me of that conversation.

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health in general has always worked like this, from supplements, to organic food, to avoiding ultra-processed foods, to gluten-free diets, pretty much every popular health fad has no provable causative effect on health. Most of human behavior is irrational. If we were all perfectly rational, we would have healthy diet and exercise habits from the get go, and we'd have plenty of time to prepare food and exercise, beca…

You might want to rethink your position on avoiding ultra processed foods not having any positive health effects...

If someone comes out with a study that shows, all other things being equal, decreasing or increasing the amount of ultra-processed foods causes a respective increase or decrease in health, then I will rethink my stance.

Until then, I'll keep eating foods consisting of proven healthy ingredients, even if they are classified as Nova 4 ultra-processed, such as lasagna made using my great grandmother's recipe or ancient Mayan dishes like pavo con achiote and also cochinita pibil, while avoiding foods that are proven unhealthy despite the not-ultra-processed Nova 3 and lower status, like Cronuts, potato chips, and bacon cheeseburgers.

Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

#110
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health in general has always worked like this, from supplements, to organic food, to avoiding ultra-processed foods, to gluten-free diets, pretty much every popular health fad has no provable causative effect on health. Most of human behavior is irrational. If we were all perfectly rational, we would have healthy diet and exercise habits from the get go, and we'd have plenty of time to prepare food and exercise, beca…

>pretty much every popular health fad has no provable causative effect on health. Isn't this almost true by definition? If it actually works, it's not a "fad", just "science" or whatever. Advice like "eat more vegetables" and "don't drink alcohol" probably do work, but they're ingrained enough that nobody thinks they're "fads".

The late 1800's health craze centered around Battle Creek, Michigan has had long lasting cultural and dietary impact, but I think most people would still call it a fad, because the core tenants were only popular for a short time.

Besides, the breakfast cereal movement it created quickly devolved from the Kellogg's and Post's original healthy cereals, Corn Flakes and Grape Nuts respectively, into the sugar-laden craze of 1950's cereals. Even Graham crackers were healthy and bland at the time, but we now associate them with cinnamon and sugar.

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