Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
I have lurked HN for about a year now, and just created an account to respond to this and say: ???
Well, at least the parent comment had one positive effect. Welcome!
What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
81–90 of 124 posts
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having lived this reality, people respond to incentives. Your have to very fundamentally re-architect the incentives and career progression in academia to make publication of null results more common. The other side of this is reducing the time and hassle of publication. Right now I’m unlikely to battle for 1.5-3 years to get something through peer review for a result that nobody will find interesting.
>people respond to incentives Careful, you're starting to sound dangerously close to an Austrian economist! [ ;) ]
"Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome." -- Charlie Munger
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
also, asbestos is too small to interact with T-cells, so it must be safe.
It's not really analogous. One of the hypothesized ways that microplastics are harmful is that they disrupt the immune system; there has been evidence found of this in bivalves. Another is that they cause inflammation, which is also mediated by T-cells. A null result on the impact of microplastics on human T-cells is directly relevant to these hypotheses. The mechanism of harm for asbestos is known to be that the fib…
I understand asbestos fibers literally get tangled with DNA, and that this can be demonstrated in vitro.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Her result was that the microplastic particles she studied were too large to interact with T cells. Her "result" of what? Was there an actual experiment and what was its scope or was this by surveying literature? Microplastics are of a pretty large range of size, and then there are nanoplastics below that. I'm also not an expert, but a quick search shows a number of results of microplastics affecting T cells, some…
I'm not an expert but I'm going to condescend about an expert's "results" anyway. Very informative, thank you for your comment. You have truly contributed to the conversation. Good job.
> I'm not an expert but I'm going to condescend about an expert's "results" anyway.
I mean it's a detail free second hand anecdote about someone's informal discussion of their bachelor's thesis. Which part of that is the basis of a good scientific conversation?
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#85Microplastics have always fascinated me, because I keep seeing article after article about how much microplastic exists around us, but far less strong evidence about its actual effects. That is not to say there are no effects, of course. Maybe we just have not found them yet. A friend of mine worked on her bachelor’s thesis about the effects of microplastics on the immune system, specifically T cells. Her result was…
> She probably will not publish this result because she thinks it is not interesting enough. Classic file-drawer problem in academic science. It's truly insane that everyone in the academic class understands the fundamental problems of herding and sampling bias and yet every incentive is in place to do this.
I’m not sure who the academic class is (are grad students, postdocs, and tenured professors really in the same class?).
Anyway, the people setting the incentives are the ones handing out the grants.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#86We don’t fully understand even some of the most obvious pathologies. If a disease isn’t glaringly obvious and coupled with profit incentive, God help you. The question of what microplastics do to us is simply beyond the capabilities of both modern medicine and academic research institutions.
When there's such a large and obvious profit disincentive, we should probably question whether its a capabilities problem or a willful ignorance problem.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get this whole attitude. Moving away from plastics in our kitchen was basically zero extra cost. Something busted, and we replaced it with non-plastic. Even bamboo scrubbers don't cost more than plastic (maybe even a little less) and I can't see any particular longevity difference. I think the fact that I volunteer to clean up trash on public lands and know that weathered plastic is the period worst period to…
Things like glass food storage containers are really expensive compared to plastic. And they still have plastic lids; like, I don't know what you'd even do without at least the seal-part being some kind of plastic, I guess you'd need to use natural-sourced wax to make it seal, or something? And on the topic of cost, I'm certain my kids have broken between 50 and 100 glass and ceramic drinking cups, storage containers…
I don't have a good answer for kids breaking stuff.
And I do wonder what glues are used in the bamboo scrubbers, but I have no way of finding out. The scrapers are at least a solid single piece. They're either definitely bamboo or some very skillfully-engineered plastic to look exactly like it. ;)
There are a lot of cheap glass blenders on [ONLINE STORE]. But yeah, the high end ones--maybe they're trying to avoid that 50s look.
We just run with the plastic lids with glass tupperware. The only other sensible replacement we've found is reused jars and Ball jars, but all those lids have plastic liners, too. We don't cook the lids and food contact is limited. Would be nice to have something else. Silicone lids? We have some of those we picked up for Ball jars at some point. But this seems like a lower potential issue than cooking with plastic materials.
For really inexpensive stuff like blenders and glass containers is the second-hand store.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from their peers No, it requires buying a whole new set of things to fit in with and be accepted by their peers, to distinguish themselves from the outgroup , the plastic users. I don’t necessarily believe this is some emergent elitism; I see it more as a modern religion with many many rules about eating and consumption (using plastic is now a sin). Li…
I've addressed this idea in a sibling comment. I think at least some superstition is inevitable in any subculture. Consider how many tech 'holy wars' might involve baseless beliefs about how a text editor or programming language or whatever being not only superior because of personal preference but because it's inherently more optimized. Treating anti-micro-plastics as a "religion" rather than a subculture based on a…
All culture is shared ignorance. These comparisons to religion are inverted. Religion was born out of cultures needing to herd their people.
You're right that the debate about plastics is mostly meaningless noise by people who don't really care. Taking advantage of uncertainty while it still exists is a lucrative game.
None of this is comparable to software. Writing software is a choice and the users don't have to care beyond the UI. It's apathy, not ignorance, that holds software back. Text editors and programming languages are not usually the highest priority choice to make. The majority of software tends to be specialized one-off solutions. We don't exactly have chemists cooking up their own kitchenware materials on the weekend.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've addressed this idea in a sibling comment. I think at least some superstition is inevitable in any subculture. Consider how many tech 'holy wars' might involve baseless beliefs about how a text editor or programming language or whatever being not only superior because of personal preference but because it's inherently more optimized. Treating anti-micro-plastics as a "religion" rather than a subculture based on a…
All culture is shared ignorance. These comparisons to religion are inverted. Religion was born out of cultures needing to herd their people. You're right that the debate about plastics is mostly meaningless noise by people who don't really care. Taking advantage of uncertainty while it still exists is a lucrative game. None of this is comparable to software. Writing software is a choice and the users don't have to ca…
Software development creates subcultures, just like any other occupation, craft, human activity. Tech holy wars is a thing, and I'm sure a lot of it dealt with articles of faith just like any other source of controversy.
I brought them up to illustrate that any endeavor will end up pockets of irrationality as part of the general culture. Doubtless in academia, scientific research, other forms of engineering, etc. there are little superstitions as part of the subculture.
That said, sure; the movement against microplastics is a pop health fad, which is different because it's a consumer-oriented activity whose actual effects are probably impossible to quantify. (As pointed out in a different comment in this discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48836691) Building software produces tangible, measurable outcomes. Though likely far less measurable compared to other forms of engineering!
> It's apathy, not ignorance, that holds software back.
That's somewhat debatable, in that compared to the physical sciences, it sure seems like software engineering involves a fair amount of following traditions of preexisting practices and there's a lot of cargo culting that ends up happening. More of a craft than a science. But that's tangential to this discussion.
Re: What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?
#90Did she debunk that article that was around microplastics in human testicles?
Wait, there's more to this than a meme?