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Grok 4.5

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Re: Grok 4.5

#201

Post by slipperybeluga »

codemog wrote: post #107

Can someone breakdown to me how this makes any sort of economical sense? Spending billions and billions to have the 3rd best model while even the number 1 and 2 players already seem to struggle making a profit. What am I missing here? Not trying to go full Ed Zitron but this doesn’t make sense to me.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see the issue here. 95% of people don't need latest Claude Opus or Fable for their work. Most people are not software engineers. Having a model that excels at other things and is faster, cheaper, accessible directly via social media, and "good enough" is a viable pathway. AI aside, when was the last time your company provided you with the "best" tool? Microsoft has made being third best in the desktop OS and cloud provider markets a highly profitable art form. I think it's too early to pick winners in AI right now.

And as others said here, xAI is also probably throwing money into AI and hoping for a breakthrough. Except in this case it's a rocket company, social media company, cloud compute provider, and satellite ISP all rolled into one that can not only bankroll the development and perform all kinds of crazy accounting shell games but can potentially benefit from any breakthroughs in other lines of business. If those Google and anthropic compute contracts hold, a lot of investment is recouped.

Maybe I'm desensitized from the launching of the Tesla Roadster into space, "bulletproof" cyber truck, and the boring company flamethrower, but this doesn't seem too wild to me.

Re: Grok 4.5

#202

Post by [deleted] »

levocardia wrote: post #158
czhu12 wrote: post #28

Its remarkable how Anthropic is able to maintain their edge against all competition. Anyone have any idea what the secret sauce is that has Anthropic at the top of all leaderboards for the past few years?

I think the "secret sauce" is not juicing the benchmarks. Claude models just feel like they are better than the benchmarks suggest, in terms of smarts and creativity, while models from every other company feel worse relative to what you'd think from the benchmarks. Only company to really internalize Goodhart's Law, IMO.

[deleted]

Re: Grok 4.5

#203

Post by Imnimo »

Very hard for me to imagine this getting beyond a low-single-digit market share. I don't understand the strategy of xAI burning money on this.

Re: Grok 4.5

#204

Post by solenoid0937 »

deno wrote: post #112
enraged_camel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the remaining 10% can bite you in bad ways. I was in Cotswolds, UK a couple of months ago. For those of you who don't know, it's a rural region known for its "chocolate-box" villages and honey-colored limestone architecture. Basically, you go from village to village, most commonly via bus, taking in the sights and doing touristy stuff. When planning the trip, my sister used ChatGPT, which helpfull…

This likely comes down to how it accessed the bus schedules (i.e. web search tool) and not intelligence. You need to add the actual bus schedule to context somehow (research agent, custom tool or just dump in prompt) and even the simpler modern models will be able to do the planning.

Tool usage competency is part of overall intelligence. If the model can't get the information it needs, it must clarify that in the response.

Re: Grok 4.5

#205

Post by sschueller »

Do we have any proof that this was made by xAI and isn't some Chinese open model running with modifications?

Their inital image generation was a wrapper around Flux.

Re: Grok 4.5

#206

Post by ayewo »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #65
Tiberium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sonnet 5 is a huge token hog, though, it uses far more reasoning tokens than Opus models while being priced at $2/$10 with promo, and $3/$15 (usual Sonnet price) afterwards.

I'll probably get hate for it, but I was not impressed by Fable, I felt like it was just Opus with more tokens for thinking. I feel like the second I turned on Fable I drained my usage more quickly, despite them billing it as though it were Opus level of usage. The value is just not there for me. I wish they could make Haiku remain low-cost and drastically more capable to the point you could use only Haiku.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but you have to approach prompting Fable slightly differently from a model like Opus.

It's important to include the reason aka the why of your task [1] in your prompt. You'll get more mileage if you verbalize your thought process when prompting Fable. Anthropic say you should think of Fable as a "thought partner".

1: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/prompt...

2: You might find some of the example prompts listed here useful https://x.com/trq212/status/2073100352921215386

Re: Grok 4.5

#207

Post by khurs »

codemog wrote: post #107

Can someone breakdown to me how this makes any sort of economical sense? Spending billions and billions to have the 3rd best model while even the number 1 and 2 players already seem to struggle making a profit. What am I missing here? Not trying to go full Ed Zitron but this doesn’t make sense to me.

SpaceX needs to keep raising many billions every year. The rockets part isn't going to make money for a long time, so diversion tactics

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828648

Also Elon has a grudge with Sam Altman and wants to beat him

Re: Grok 4.5

#208

Post by tonyhart7 »

goodroot wrote: post #122
codemog wrote: post #107

Can someone breakdown to me how this makes any sort of economical sense? Spending billions and billions to have the 3rd best model while even the number 1 and 2 players already seem to struggle making a profit. What am I missing here? Not trying to go full Ed Zitron but this doesn’t make sense to me.

The product is the stock. It is very valuable when you have various bundles of services, such as satellites, AI, and so on, to keep pace with the majors so that you keep pace with their valuation. These stacking valuations are not additive, they're multiplicative because you additionally market investors to the synergy between them. Having the third best model statistically is extremely useful in this context.

I know that SpaceX have tremendous potential, the problem is that we account future potential that maybe not happening in 20 - 50 years

Re: Grok 4.5

#209

Post by msabalau »

ur-whale wrote: post #184
throwa356262 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is using AI at such scale internally they don't need external customers to recoup their investment.

> Google is using AI at such scale internally they don't need external customers to recoup their investment. That's assuming their flagship product remains relevant in an AI-powered world. Which brings to mind: most of the big shops product (chatgpt, claude, grok, etc...) ALL rely on search, and NONE of them actually have a running search stack. Which means, they must all be calling Google, no? How does Google make m…

Google's ad revenue has done really well so far in the LLM era, and wasup 12% year over year in 2025, and forecasted to do the same next year.

And that changes, then that's all the more reason for them to be investing in AI.

Re: Grok 4.5

#210

Post by khurs »

tbomb wrote: post #3

How popular is Grok compared to other companies models for SWE tasks? I almost never hear it talked about against OpenAI's or Anthropic's products

Wasn't, which is why they purchased Cursor.
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