Live data from Hacker News

Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

euronews.com

271–280 of 284 posts

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the school declines to put a book in the library, that's not a ban. If people outside the school with power over the school demand that books be removed, that's a ban. The groups demanding books be removed are often not even parents of children in the school. It external parties driving this stuff.

Removing a book from the library is not a ban any more than a publisher rejecting a manuscript is a ban. Declining to provide a book is not the same as prohibiting the possession, use, or distribution of a book. As for “external parties”, schools in the US are public institutions.

If rather have folks that are trained in childhood education doing that job than randos.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that cut and dry? A technically competent person might easily access a book while living in an authoritarian country, while someone who grows up in an authoritarian family in a "free" country might be prevented from reading a book both at home and at the school where their parents lobbied to ban the book. (It's quite hard to access suppressed information if you lack the knowledge it exists in the first p…

Authoritarian family? Parents have the authority over their children until they are old enough to make their own decisions. It is up to them how they raise their kids. They will have all the time and opportunity in the world to read and try anything they want to when they're older.

The specific examples I provided included domestic abuse; most sexual abuse is done by a family member. I hope it's not contentious to say that parental control should not be as authoritarian as to allow that, let alone suppress the victim's knowledge of what it is.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think parents should not have a say? Wouldn’t that be rather authoritarian to have whatever books and disregard criticism? Many librarians are activists and are choosing books that are not educational. They are actively selecting books that they agree with.

You hire professionals to teach your children. If you think you can do it better than them, why are you sending your kids to school?

I guess you are fine with the recent increase in homeschooling which is hitting record numbers. The activists..oops "professionals" don't like that either.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#274
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the Bell Curve it's bullshit. I'm from Europe (Spain), and even the Francoists said otherwise. Right wing people further than Pether Thiel itself. Go figure. A nun, some woman (women are far more aware than men on emotions as their hormones basically grant an A+ on social skills) stated that Black People weren't dumb, but African people had no tradition at all on stimulating or paying good attention babies/tod…

[flagged]

Which is an SES effect; SES effects are all generally "highly politically relevant".

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've banned a number of books from my household as I don't want my child exposed to them. And I support banning them from the school. Children aren't adults. It's reasonable to expect that education caters to a common denominator within society. I would only have a problem if adults couldn't acquire these books.

Note that children do become adults while in (high) school. It's common for book-banners to imply that they are removing books from elementary school kids when they are actually removing them from adults and almost-adults in high schools.

Sure. The place for these adults to get books is the county/city library and not the school library. As I said, there's a certain common denominator that we need to respect when talking about public schools.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who or what is preventing you from exposing your children to whatever you’d prefer? The books aren’t banned.

If you don’t allow something to exist in a school or classroom library through statute or governmental action what do you call it? Would you prefer forbidden? Barred? Censored?

This kind of thing happens commonly with language development over time. If a word or phrase picks up a strong connotation, then the word or phrase stops being used generically. This used to happen so slowly that nobody really noticed it happening to individual words or phrases, I think.

As an example, starting a fire could be called “firing”. If you say you’re going to “fire the stove”, that isn’t typically said, but everyone would know what you meant. If you call your friend group a “squad”, again, this isn’t typically said, but everyone would know what you meant.

If your friend group goes camping and works together to light a fire, you could say that you’re part of a “firing squad”. But, that already has such a strong connotation that it would be confusing and you would have to constantly explain what you actually mean because “firing squad” as a phrase is already taken.

That is of course a synthetic example but I think it illustrates the point. When we say “banned books”, that has a certain connotation. If what we mean is more like “curated books”, because they aren’t actually banned for sale anywhere, even at the local level, then saying “banned books” is confusing in the same way and it carries an undue emotional charge from the typical usage of that phrase.

If that undue emotional charge seems to be getting weaponized, then using it and acting innocent about it is going to ruffle some feathers.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t allow something to exist in a school or classroom library through statute or governmental action what do you call it? Would you prefer forbidden? Barred? Censored?

This kind of thing happens commonly with language development over time. If a word or phrase picks up a strong connotation, then the word or phrase stops being used generically. This used to happen so slowly that nobody really noticed it happening to individual words or phrases, I think. As an example, starting a fire could be called “firing”. If you say you’re going to “fire the stove”, that isn’t typically said, bu…

They are banned though. Not curated. You are not allowed to have these in school libraries. It’s not an editorial decision. For instance the Utah law says that a book must be removed from all libraries if 3 school districts in the state ban it.

No librarian, or teacher, or admin or parent in the other school districts gets any say.

That’s a ban. People may not like that their state is engaging in authoritarian behavior, and it’s less authoritarian than other behaviors, but it’s a ban by the simple facts. Doublespeak doesn’t change that.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarian family? Parents have the authority over their children until they are old enough to make their own decisions. It is up to them how they raise their kids. They will have all the time and opportunity in the world to read and try anything they want to when they're older.

The specific examples I provided included domestic abuse; most sexual abuse is done by a family member. I hope it's not contentious to say that parental control should not be as authoritarian as to allow that, let alone suppress the victim's knowledge of what it is.

Not any abuse, no. But who is trying to censor or ban information on how abuse victims can get help?

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing happens commonly with language development over time. If a word or phrase picks up a strong connotation, then the word or phrase stops being used generically. This used to happen so slowly that nobody really noticed it happening to individual words or phrases, I think. As an example, starting a fire could be called “firing”. If you say you’re going to “fire the stove”, that isn’t typically said, bu…

They are banned though. Not curated. You are not allowed to have these in school libraries. It’s not an editorial decision. For instance the Utah law says that a book must be removed from all libraries if 3 school districts in the state ban it. No librarian, or teacher, or admin or parent in the other school districts gets any say. That’s a ban. People may not like that their state is engaging in authoritarian behavi…

Okay let’s be clear on what we’re talking about.

I have seen lots of discussions about headlines along the lines of “ bans ”. Or just referring to book X as “a banned book in ”. This has the problem I described, and this is where I see arguments happening that don’t really make sense to me. It isn’t doublespeak to say what I said about this.

If what we’re talking about is actually the more detailed headline “ bans FROM SCHOOL LIBRARIES”, or “book X which is banned FROM SCHOOL LIBRARIES in ” then that is accurate and fine. I haven’t seen anyone complaining about this, have you?

We can’t pretend the two are the same thing, they aren’t the same thing.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning books on a country level may be silly but curating what is allowed in a school library is not. Which is exactly why people with an agenda want to conflate these two.

The librarians should curate, not the parents. The parents are welcome to decide for their own children what is permissible and not, but should have no authority to prevent others' children from accessing materials they do not find objectionable. Why is it about "parental rights" when it comes to anti-vaccination, but authoritarian control mechanisms when it comes to someone else's kid reading a fucking book?

If your goal is what to have parents decide what their kids can read then the only way to do that is to have the shared (e.g. school) library carry the commonly agreed upon subset and individual parents who want their kids to have access to more to provide those more controversial book at home. The only reason to call to have books other parents don't want their kids to be exposed to in the school library is if you want to override their choice and make those books available to kids other than yours as well.
Post reply on HN