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China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

bbc.com

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Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#471

Post by afroboy »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #30
TrackerFF wrote: post #8

I sometimes see people "celebrate" this, with the rationale that China is cracking down on white-collar crimes and handing out sentences unheard of in the west. But, are these sort of things just examples of selective prosecution? Would the inner circle members of CCP leadership realistically face the same prosecution and sentencing, if they were to be caught doing the same?

Killing people in any context is barbaric because it is not possible to bring someone back from the dead. I’m not a law expert but it seems pretty basic that there shouldn’t be irreversible punishment. Also there should be equity which means everyone that does the same crime should face the same consequence, which doesn’t happen anywhere in the world as far as I can understand. So harsher punishment means people with…

Does that killing is bad apply to other nations with different beliefs than you?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#472

Post by nkmnz »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #423
nkmnz wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really haven’t written anything about Uyghurs specifically. I only corrected your mistaken assumption that genocide must necessarily involve the killing or physical extermination of people. It doesn't even require to be successful at its mission - it's the intent when taking any of the specified actions that counts, such as causing serious bodily or mental harm, imposing destructive conditions of life, preventing b…

I'm saying all of the people still exist and their lives were never in danger. There were some dozens executed for actual terror/separatism charges, maybe some of those cases were bad, but it was not a threat to "the people". The fact that the argument has to lean into technicalities and attributed unspoken intentions rather than actual horrors should say everything.

There are people saying all the Jews were still alive in Germany. For a matter of fact, I've recently been to a jewish restaurant. The owners seemed fine.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#473

Post by saxonww »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #463
saxonww wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never meant only that, but that's not the argument. We decided that a long time ago. Genocide refers to a People (race, kind, tribe, family, etc.), not individual people. The group is a concept, and 'killing' it doesn't have to involve the biological death of the group members. That's part of what the linked resolution is trying to say. For example, you could go sterilize every member of an ethnic group, without…

Ok but none of those things came even close to happening in this case. The arguments are all, like, it was in pursuit of genocide, because I say so, so if one guy died in detention then it's a genocide.

Well there are allegations of mass detentions, forced labor, destruction of religious sites, suppression of language, separation of children into Chinese-controlled boarding schools, coercive birth control, and sterilization.

You agreed with me that genocide is more expansive than "we're directly killing people". For the sake of argument, let's assume the allegations are true: what would you call that?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#476

Post by jamiek88 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #446
jamiek88 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came to power in 2021 - time traveler too is he? Did you mean Trump?

Hard to tell one old man with dementia from another

Weird way of apologizing for being wrong. Keep that shit on Reddit.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#477

Post by fakedang »

xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #413
threatofrain wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that this guy was actually being prosecuted for crimes or that this guy lacked loyalty to Xi Jinping. A tremendous number of top generals and leadership has been wiped out in a short time and not necessarily refilled, and it's not because China has a huge disloyalty problem.

Does it actually have a huge disloyalty problem or are they just better at punishing people for it compared to the us

Given that they've already carried out a Stalinist purge within the military ranks, I'm leaning towards the former. Xi might very well be positioning for a Taiwanese invasion.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#478

Post by nkmnz »

maxglute wrote: post #426
nkmnz wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Killing people" is not required for committing a genocide: Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements: 1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and 2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively: 2.1 Killing memb…

> intent to destroy Except there was no intent to destroy, literally all other points 2.X that follows is irrelevant. There's reason plurality of UN takes PRC position that they indented to deradicalize / reeducate, aka not genocide. Which is obvious except to useful idiots on Pompeo propaganda because reducing PRC minorities by 1 is bad for Xi's hagiography. Now the gets to bask in the glory of speed running histori…

So you say the Germans should just have reeducated the Jews to not being Jews anymore - and it wouldn't have been a genocide?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#479

Post by warumdarum »

saxonww wrote: post #451
refurb wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the “-cide” root of the word which means “kill” no longer means that?

It's never meant only that, but that's not the argument. We decided that a long time ago. Genocide refers to a People (race, kind, tribe, family, etc.), not individual people. The group is a concept, and 'killing' it doesn't have to involve the biological death of the group members. That's part of what the linked resolution is trying to say. For example, you could go sterilize every member of an ethnic group, without…

So beeing unable to keep up, because your culture holds you back that is a genocide? Like somebody develops machines, that marginalize your existence until you fade away, that is a genocide?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#480

Post by warumdarum »

nkmnz wrote: post #414
nixon_why69 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brother, I eat at a Uyghur restaurant in Wuhan pretty regularly. Nobody destroyed any groups. There was a big overreaction that violated people's rights but the people still exist and are fine. If we contrast with how the West have reacted to terror attacks, its quite rich to see them throwing UN definitions at China.

I really haven’t written anything about Uyghurs specifically. I only corrected your mistaken assumption that genocide must necessarily involve the killing or physical extermination of people. It doesn't even require to be successful at its mission - it's the intent when taking any of the specified actions that counts, such as causing serious bodily or mental harm, imposing destructive conditions of life, preventing b…

What if a culture is genocidal and hellbent in removing all minorities from its surroundings? Like nazis driving everything away in a wave of conquest? Is extinction of this genocide? Look at the minority histograms of the middle east for example
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