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How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

mydiplomaticlife.com

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Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#81

Post by snovymgodym »

zerr wrote: post #19

Why do we keep tolerating that regime which makes 26 mln people suffer? Why can't we do Operation a la Maduro there?

If you think US foreign policy decisions are, or ever have been, made primarily on the basis of preventing the suffering of civilians in other countries then I have an Aerospace & Defense Sector ETF to sell you.

Snark aside, the real answer is that in the past it was infeasible and undesirable due to the geopolitical situation with China and the USSR. Any major operation there would have been a Cuban missile crisis level provocation. After North Korea successfully built nuclear weapons, any sort of regime change games like the US has done in other countries became totally out of the question. There may have been a brief window in the 1990s where it would have been possible, but it still would likely have resulted in mass civilian casualties (look at where Seoul is on a map).

The only "good" realistic scenario for North Korea in the next 20 years is that they gradually reform their system akin to what China did in the late 70s, early 80s.

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#82

Post by thisislife2 »

moi2388 wrote: post #76
danparsonson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed the fighting ended in an armistice so the war was never legally declared to be over. Visiting the DMZ between the countries is a surreal experience - part tense stand-off, part theme park.

I wonder what would happen if South Korea simply said they weren’t at war anymore. Acknowledge that yes, North Korea considers them at war with us. However, we consider us to be peaceful neighbours. Whenever North Korea threatens them, simply reply with how sorry you are their brother nation feels this way, and you wish them a peaceful and successful future. Leave the DMZ intact of course, but just unilaterally decla…

It's not the South Koreans per se that they have a problem with - it's the presence of the US military in South Korea that is seen as the real threat to North Korea. So if the South Koreans honestly want to repair their relation with the North Koreans, they will, at the very least, have to ask the Americans to leave. But the Americans will not leave because they have a hostile relation with the North Koreans, and they believe their presence in South Korea is the only thing preventing the North Koreans from throwing a few nukes at them. China and Russia will also not allow the North Koreans to repair their relations with the South Koreans unless they have guarantees from South Korea that they will be mindful of Chinese and Russian security concerns (which, in realpolitik terms would require South Korea to cut of ties with the US military and becoming "neutral").

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#83

Post by thisislife2 »

looperhacks wrote: post #27
runamuck wrote: post #7

"North Korea’s border with South Korea is a disputed border as both countries claim the entirety of the Korean Peninsula." - I did not know South Korea felt this way!

Can't open the article, so maybe it was already mentioned. But not only does South Korea claim the entire Peninsula, they even consider North Koreans as South Korean citizens.

And yet, they are very wary and afraid of unification due to the impact it may have on their economy. A unified Korea may become a "developing nation" again.

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#84

Post by thisislife2 »

spwa4 wrote: post #13
orphereus wrote: post #6

Playing golf in North Korea sounds crazy.

Why? Because the poor are starving? North Korea has ultra-wealthy ... it works a bit differently but there is massive inequality, and there is extreme wealth.

Russians and Chinese have a lot of investment in North Korea - North Korea opens ‘world-class’ tourist resort - https://www.rt.com/news/620717-north-korea-resort-tourism/ ... and they also contract a lot of North Korean to work in their country (ofcourse, it is more akin to the bonded labourer system).

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#85

Post by quickthrowman »

zerr wrote: post #19

Why do we keep tolerating that regime which makes 26 mln people suffer? Why can't we do Operation a la Maduro there?

Two reasons.

Artillery aimed at Seoul: https://atlasinstitute.org/seouls-48-hour-nightmare-from-nor...

Nuclear weapons that can hit Japan (and US bases in Japan): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mas...

Plus, the quiet part that nobody ever says is neither China or South Korea actually wants to reintegrate a thoroughly brainwashed population. It would be the worst refugee crisis ever by at least an order of magnitude.

German reintegration was difficult enough, reintegrating Korea would be much harder

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#87

Post by quickthrowman »

9999px wrote: post #66

DPRK is obviously maligned by U.S. propaganda, but I know several people who've gone and loved it. Famously, the "Boy Boy" YouTube channel guys went and got a haircut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E

Why are you sharing North Korean propaganda? There is no such thing as a video filmed in North Korea that is not propaganda.

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#88

Post by peder »

thehappypm wrote: post #47
zerr wrote: post #19

Why do we keep tolerating that regime which makes 26 mln people suffer? Why can't we do Operation a la Maduro there?

The less snarky answer is that our current system does not have a functioning global government. There is no real “we”. Influencing how other countries operate can only be done by force or diplomacy, and because North Korea has nuclear weapons, force is basically off the table, and they’re not interested in diplomacy.

> The less snarky answer is that our current system does not have a functioning global government

What an odd thing to say. Even when there were monolithic governments ruling over certain sphere of influence like the USSR over Eastern Europe, you still had countries break ranks like Yugoslavia and Romania. A single unified government does not mean that individual actors do not know and use their own leverage to advance their own interests.

North Korea is independent for a variety of reasons, and it's not clear that a pro-US North Korea is an all-around win with no downsides for the US. I think both the US and China like having buffer states to avoid flashpoints for war.

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#89

Post by rtkwe »

wowczarek wrote: post #73

A diplomatic mission established for the sake of establishing it and staff making the best out of their time there I can somewhat understand, but not tourism into DPRK for the "curious" and leaving money in that state. Going there to play golf would feel like visiting Pol Pot's Cambodia because they have good forest hikes, just be careful not to slip on all the blood seeping out of the ground. As to the lack of fear…

There's still a large difference in the danger posed between an Iraq stationing and NK even as a generic tourist. You're much more at risk of angering the locals and becoming a political token if something should happen while you were there in NK but unless they were there before the US invasion there's a lot bigger threat of non-government groups attacking you in Iraq.

Re: How to Survive 3 Years in North Korea as a Foreigner

#90

Post by rtkwe »

quickthrowman wrote: post #85
zerr wrote: post #19

Why do we keep tolerating that regime which makes 26 mln people suffer? Why can't we do Operation a la Maduro there?

Two reasons. Artillery aimed at Seoul: https://atlasinstitute.org/seouls-48-hour-nightmare-from-nor... Nuclear weapons that can hit Japan (and US bases in Japan): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mas... Plus, the quiet part that nobody ever says is neither China or South Korea actually wants to reintegrate a thoroughly brainwashed population. It would be the worst refugee crisis ever by at lea…

That's out of date, they can nominally reach the US mainland now with nuclear payloads. Accuracy and reliability are somewhat questionable but it's a huge gamble.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/hwasong-17/

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