Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
11–20 of 58 posts
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#12This article is a bit hard for me to grasp the main ideas of because, given Cloudflare's requirements (e.g. no strong leaders), it immediately seems like they should be comparing to leaderless protocols like Paxos-class algorithms. Comparing to Raft and saying it's better because Meerkat is leaderless is confusing, because Raft is an adjustment to Paxos to specifically have strong leaders. So I'm 3/4 the way into the…
Worth noting if it wasn't obvious from the article that Cloudflare did not develop QuePaxa. It's from an SOSP paper back in 2023[0]. The article is discussing what is the first known large-scale public deployment of the protocol. [0] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3600006.3613150
Maybe the blog post is just premature. It would be much more valuable if they posted it after actually having run it in production and validated the strengths and weaknesses with real world data.
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#13TBH I’m doubtful of most people building their own crypto libs and distributed consensus implementations. But maybe cloudflare can pull it off. Good to see them pushing the state of distributed consensus. Take aways: * it’s not in prod yet. I suspect those many round trips are going to get expensive on median aka typical redistributed deployments. Curious to see how it goes once in the wild. * they say it isn’t likel…
> I’m doubtful of most people building their own crypto libs and distributed consensus implementations. But maybe cloudflare can pull it off. Who else than Cloudflare (or similar company in expertise and size) would be a better fit to implement distributed consensus?
This is obviously true, and there are surely more web devs than, say, compiler engineers.
But then the logic seems to go as far as to imply nobody does or should be doing these things. Where do they think the “off the shelf” solutions came from?
I worked at , and many critical systems written in the 90’s and early 2000s used bespoke compilers, caches, and consensus protocols that were hand rolled by the original developers.
Back then, most of these ideas were already present in academia. But the industry tech wasn’t quite there yet to run these huge services at scale without running into problems (paying a vendor, licensing, the open source solution not quite there or tunable enough to easily integrate it at the needed scale, no company wide consensus on a shared approach yet).
A lot of these handwritten implementations eventually informed the “off the shelf industry solutions” we have today.
I think that’s what gets me down about tech these days. There’s a weird almost anti innovation attitude, which is the opposite of what made me fall in love with this profession. I’m not saying to hand roll a consensus algorithm at your next start up. But there’s definitely a vibe these days that any sort of theoretical, creative, or innovative thinking is suspect. Get back to selling ads!
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#14Illustrated with meercats looking in different directions.
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#15E.g. 1. Intro about issues with concensus 2. Intro to QuePaxa 3. Comparison to other algos that are close to it 4. Mentioning active work on implementation via Meerkat and intent to bring to production with followup posts.
As always when it comes to concensus it's all about trade-offs. And with QuePaxa that might be the increase in messages (note: I don't mean message round-trips). We'll see how it goes but it will definitely be interesting.
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#16This article is a bit hard for me to grasp the main ideas of because, given Cloudflare's requirements (e.g. no strong leaders), it immediately seems like they should be comparing to leaderless protocols like Paxos-class algorithms. Comparing to Raft and saying it's better because Meerkat is leaderless is confusing, because Raft is an adjustment to Paxos to specifically have strong leaders. So I'm 3/4 the way into the…
Re: Cloudflare Meerkat - Globally distributed consensus
#17This article is a bit hard for me to grasp the main ideas of because, given Cloudflare's requirements (e.g. no strong leaders), it immediately seems like they should be comparing to leaderless protocols like Paxos-class algorithms. Comparing to Raft and saying it's better because Meerkat is leaderless is confusing, because Raft is an adjustment to Paxos to specifically have strong leaders. So I'm 3/4 the way into the…
It feels like somebody prompted an AI agent at CF "why Meerkat is better than Raft" when drafting this blog post.
They could have picked something far more concrete (for Cloudflare's business and the type of services they deploy) than "AI model" there, which is clearly picked just to make it seem 'current' and on-trend.