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Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

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Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#51

Post by spwa4 »

Zigurd wrote: post #46
fragmede wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple invested 3x the Marshall Plan into China. Imagine if they'd spent that on the US instead.

I distinctly remember Apple having produced a video showing off an automated assembly line for PCB production for the original Mac. It's not like they didn't try it.

It's a sad commentary on the modern world that state support (ie. tax avoidance, and ... shall we say "help" in labor relations) matters more than even the best people you can possibly hire working on your manufacturing.

Because that's the difference between China and the US. It's not that the US does nothing, just that China does way more. Some companies are apparently paying negative tax (meaning every products sold the state adds 15% to the price, such deals apparently exist)

But, yeah, less tax means less everything for everyone. Especially less social support and less healthcare. But I guess this is what some of the more constructive people mean when they say taxes are too high. As well as what socialists meant 30 years ago when they said that very high import tariffs are a necessity. They compensate for these huge differences. But at the cost of making any foreign product (ie. "your iPhone") a lot more expensive than it already is.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#53

Post by Zigurd »

hilariously wrote: post #4
ruperthair wrote: post #2

As much as I hate the source of the tariff policies, from an uneducated outsider PoV, they do seem to be causing fewer dollars to leave the country in imports. How does it feel from an insider perspective? Are the increased costs on imported items and dependent services worth it for a bit more local investment?

It's adding a huge amount of economic turmoil, businesses are not investing because there's no certainty, and there's no more "local investment" except in newspaper articles.

The turmoil comes not only from the fact of tariffs but from the manner in which the US operates tariff policy if you can call it that. It's the equivalent of button mashing your game controller. There is a low upper bound to the effectiveness, and this approach isn't just applied to tariffs. Firing scientists, blocking aid to children at random, musing aloud about invading NATO allies all adds up to wanton destruction of US soft power and reputation. The specific policies hardly matter in a shit storm of incompetence.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#55

Post by throwawaytea »

elAhmo wrote: post #49
fragmede wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple invested 3x the Marshall Plan into China. Imagine if they'd spent that on the US instead.

You fail to understand that Apple investing in China is in their best interest - and then returned back to millions of shareholders. If investing in the USA would be a better ROI, there would be no need for any measures like this to force companies somewhere. People in favour of tariffs make it seem like the best and wealthiest economy in the world is in a bad shape, and it is completely opposite, while failing to ad…

You're conflating better for apple (and shareholders) with better for the country overall.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#56

Post by spwa4 »

bluGill wrote: post #32
joshstrange wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No company can plan based on the tariffs. There is zero guarantee that then next government won't revoked them or that the current one won't flip-flop. Local manufacturing doesn't swing on a 2-4 (or 6 or 8) year timescale. There needs to be consistency. The company that moves (or starts) manufacturing here today might get run out of business when/if tariffs are repealed and their competitor already has production lin…

That isn't 100% true, maybe 99% though. Anyone paying attention to politics for the last 40 years would have seen that there has always been an undercurrent of people unhappy with imports. This is the most power those people have had, but they have always been there and got significant political attention. There have thus been signs to be aware of, and those signs are things a smart company will take into considerati…

But that's the current dollar-based system. Like the gold-based system before it, today countries as a whole have to have long-term balanced trade, as measured in dollars. That's what a great many countries demanded to keep the system fair. If need be, some temporary imbalances can be forgiven by the world bank, but not much.

Outlawing or taxing imports (=tarriffs) of course helps with this.

However, if you look at economic history this always slowly lead to problems that only got resolved by fresh loans (that's what the move to dollar effectively did), hyperinflation or wars.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#57

Post by [deleted] »

ruperthair wrote: post #2

As much as I hate the source of the tariff policies, from an uneducated outsider PoV, they do seem to be causing fewer dollars to leave the country in imports. How does it feel from an insider perspective? Are the increased costs on imported items and dependent services worth it for a bit more local investment?

[deleted]

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#58

Post by Forgeties79 »

ruperthair wrote: post #2

As much as I hate the source of the tariff policies, from an uneducated outsider PoV, they do seem to be causing fewer dollars to leave the country in imports. How does it feel from an insider perspective? Are the increased costs on imported items and dependent services worth it for a bit more local investment?

The tariffs have done nothing to improve the budget deficit (not even worth mentioning the debt) and consumer prices are higher than ever. We’ve seen no benefits.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#59

Post by znpy »

joshstrange wrote: post #13
ruperthair wrote: post #2

As much as I hate the source of the tariff policies, from an uneducated outsider PoV, they do seem to be causing fewer dollars to leave the country in imports. How does it feel from an insider perspective? Are the increased costs on imported items and dependent services worth it for a bit more local investment?

No company can plan based on the tariffs. There is zero guarantee that then next government won't revoked them or that the current one won't flip-flop. Local manufacturing doesn't swing on a 2-4 (or 6 or 8) year timescale. There needs to be consistency. The company that moves (or starts) manufacturing here today might get run out of business when/if tariffs are repealed and their competitor already has production lin…

> No company can plan based on the tariffs. There is zero guarantee that then next government won't revoked them or that the current one won't flip-flop. Local manufacturing doesn't swing on a 2-4 (or 6 or 8) year timescale. There needs to be consistency.

Indeed, but the role of a government is to steer/push private initiative in a certain direction.

Tariffs and stuff are steering private companies towards building stuff in-house (as in: "in the us").

Future initiative inconsistent with this directions will essentially be a sabotage of the US economy.

Re: Apple to increase spend with Broadcom to produce billions more U.S. chips

#60

Post by matwood »

throwawaytea wrote: post #55
elAhmo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to understand that Apple investing in China is in their best interest - and then returned back to millions of shareholders. If investing in the USA would be a better ROI, there would be no need for any measures like this to force companies somewhere. People in favour of tariffs make it seem like the best and wealthiest economy in the world is in a bad shape, and it is completely opposite, while failing to ad…

You're conflating better for apple (and shareholders) with better for the country overall.

The US economy has been one of the best performing economies ever, which has been great for the country overall. Deeper economic ties with other super powers is also a pretty good at keeping the peace. While there are some specific issues, it's hard to argue it hasn't been good for the country overall.
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