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Old People

bhorowitz.com

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Re: Old People

#31

Post by adrianhoward »

Tichy wrote: post #22
adrianhoward wrote: post #14

The mistake I've seen a few companies make is hiring in the wrong kind of experience (and I'm gonna use that word instead of "old" since I don't think the "old" bit is actually the issue). For example - say you want to "build a worldwide sales channel". Go find somebody who's running a worldwide sales channel and poach 'em... right? Nope. Coz running a successful worldwide sales channel is a very different process fr…

Also, I don't know, wouldn't somebody who built a sales channel (whatever that is) in the past have done so with completely outdated methods? Presumably fax machines and telephones?

Also, I don't know, wouldn't somebody who built a sales channel (whatever that is) in the past have done so with completely outdated methods? Presumably fax machines and telephones?

1) There have been largish successful organisations built since the web was invented ;-)

2) Lots of pre-web skills skills are transferable to more modern technologies. Most of the work in creating and building sales channels - especially internationally - is understanding people relationships, legal issues, managing recruiting and scaling of organisations not code, etc.

3) There are domains where large multinational organisations are still built using telephones, personal relationships and boots on the ground. If you're looking to build the next Oracle or SAP a bunch of retweets and facebook likes are not going to help.

Re: Old People

#32

Post by dennisgorelik »

sophacles wrote: post #25
microcentury wrote: post #23

Slightly off topic: Are there no male executives left in the world? All that politically admirable use of 'she' was linguistically very jarring, and an unnecessary distraction from a fine article. Have we not pretty much agreed on 'they' as being the gender-neutral acceptable alternative to 'he'?

If the idea of female executives it that shocking to people, it's probably a good idea to sometimes use a female gendered "generic" executive. Had the author said "he" rather than "they" I highly doubt that anyone would have made this comment. Further if they had, any complaints about it would be ridiculed as overly feminist or sensitive. A lot of people fine the use of a collective pronoun (they) for a singular gene…

Using "she" is confusing in a similar way as using "they" - just to a lesser degree.

If typical executive is a male, then using "she" needlessly attracts reader's attention due to the unexpected word usage.

Granted, using "she" helps making overall idea of female executive more acceptable, but main focus of this article is "hiring experienced/old employees", not "shifting cultural norm to making females more acceptable for executive roles".

Re: Old People

#33

Post by sophacles »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #32
sophacles wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the idea of female executives it that shocking to people, it's probably a good idea to sometimes use a female gendered "generic" executive. Had the author said "he" rather than "they" I highly doubt that anyone would have made this comment. Further if they had, any complaints about it would be ridiculed as overly feminist or sensitive. A lot of people fine the use of a collective pronoun (they) for a singular gene…

Using "she" is confusing in a similar way as using "they" - just to a lesser degree. If typical executive is a male, then using "she" needlessly attracts reader's attention due to the unexpected word usage. Granted, using "she" helps making overall idea of female executive more acceptable, but main focus of this article is "hiring experienced/old employees", not "shifting cultural norm to making females more acceptab…

This is disingenuous to an appalling degree. How does shifting the cultural norm happen if not by doing things that aren't (currently) the cultural norm? Why does one have to toe a line when she doesn't find that OK?

Equally disingenuous is the notion that the author must strip out everything not related to the point as you dennisgorelik sees it (as opposed to the author keeping exactly what the author wants to keep in the article). Perhaps in an article about finding the right experienced employee, where a major theme is "you have to look at it a bit differently than you'd expect", the use of the unexpected gender is a subtle reinforcement point. But sure, people who write never try to use multiple methods to get the idea across - that would be silly and go along with everything most writing courses/books/guides suggest. It must be a political agenda.

Re: Old People

#34

Post by johnrgrace »

nicholassmith wrote: post #16

I've heard before startups saying "yeah, but once you're a bit older you can't commit to the 14 hour days, you have family and stuff". 14 hour days are bad and wrong anyway, no one should do them, and no one should expect them. Grumpy grownups have probably done them before, but have enough knowledge of the languages that the 14 hours can be squeezed into 9. Anyway, startups should hire the right person for the right…

Part of the point of hiring someone with experence is that they don't HAVE to put in 16 hour days because they know how to do it.

Re: Old People

#35

Post by dennisgorelik »

sophacles wrote: post #33
dennisgorelik wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using "she" is confusing in a similar way as using "they" - just to a lesser degree. If typical executive is a male, then using "she" needlessly attracts reader's attention due to the unexpected word usage. Granted, using "she" helps making overall idea of female executive more acceptable, but main focus of this article is "hiring experienced/old employees", not "shifting cultural norm to making females more acceptab…

This is disingenuous to an appalling degree. How does shifting the cultural norm happen if not by doing things that aren't (currently) the cultural norm? Why does one have to toe a line when she doesn't find that OK? Equally disingenuous is the notion that the author must strip out everything not related to the point as you dennisgorelik sees it (as opposed to the author keeping exactly what the author wants to keep…

Cultural norms are shifting by doing, not by faking it. Marissa Mayer is shifting "executive's gender" cultural norm. Ben Horowitz - not so much.
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