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We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

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Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#221

Post by nottorp »

alex7o wrote: post #214
nottorp wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, sounds like the usual time pressure tactics. Perhaps because no one's actually trying it. In the mean time, their vibe coded frontend doesn't actually let me use Fable because it thinks i'm trying to hack open source software. What I'm actually doing is debugging null pointer crashes due to data corruption in the closed source software i work for these days, but no, you dirty hacker, you can't do that. So let's…

More so my problem is that they are baiting people to burn tokens meaninglessly, when ni need to rush and hurry and try to max out your usage

That's your choice. I just turned Fable on and did my usual stuff.

But then I'm not vibe coding so my token usage is ridiculously small...

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#222

Post by scotty79 »

_pdp_ wrote: post #218

I couldn't find a situation where Fable was significantly outperforming Opus enough to make me say wow. I tried to make it fix a browser game that is sort of like a Mario clone. It couldn't. It fumbled in the same places Opus was struggling too. I tried it with other code as well, but I couldn't get any significant performance improvement out of it, except perhaps in improving my account's token burn. If anything, in…

> many people realised that it is possible to run a serious open-weight model yourself, as long as you can get the hardware to support it

That's not realistic. You'd need non-consumer hardware for a frontier open-weights model. And even if you had such hardware for free. Electricity to run it would cost you more than a sub.

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#224

Post by _pdp_ »

scotty79 wrote: post #222
_pdp_ wrote: post #218

I couldn't find a situation where Fable was significantly outperforming Opus enough to make me say wow. I tried to make it fix a browser game that is sort of like a Mario clone. It couldn't. It fumbled in the same places Opus was struggling too. I tried it with other code as well, but I couldn't get any significant performance improvement out of it, except perhaps in improving my account's token burn. If anything, in…

> many people realised that it is possible to run a serious open-weight model yourself, as long as you can get the hardware to support it That's not realistic. You'd need non-consumer hardware for a frontier open-weights model. And even if you had such hardware for free. Electricity to run it would cost you more than a sub.

When I said "running it yourself" I didn't mean me personally running it at home. That will be unfeasible. A company can afford it though and also a supplier that serves multiple customers can do that as well. In fact, I was talking to a company that does this and the model is fully in UK where we need them to be.

At the end of the day it is about the sense of optionality. We know that this is the business model for almost all open source projects. It is not like you cannot download and run the project yourself and some do for practical reasons, but often times the cloud version is priced such that it is the path of least resistance so people go for that.

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#225

Post by randsorex »

_pdp_ wrote: post #218

I couldn't find a situation where Fable was significantly outperforming Opus enough to make me say wow. I tried to make it fix a browser game that is sort of like a Mario clone. It couldn't. It fumbled in the same places Opus was struggling too. I tried it with other code as well, but I couldn't get any significant performance improvement out of it, except perhaps in improving my account's token burn. If anything, in…

I agreed last week but the more I have used Fable this week the more I am getting use to Fable.

I think the Taleb argument is really a stretch for this situation. I consider Taleb one of my greatest teachers but that kind of Talebism I have grown suspicious of in time.

How many surgeons actually look like a butcher lol.

Much of Taleb is like this that it sounds profound as a thought experiment but so much has just nothing to do with reality. A lot of what he is arguing against he is actually doing a form of.

I love Taleb but he is absolutely full of shit. It is marketing and his brand. The proof he is correct are some vague options trades he made 40 years ago.

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#226

Post by NichoPaolucci »

Quothling wrote: post #176
replwoacause wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Maybe. But I've grown weary of it. It feels like I'm in a relationship with a mercurial partner, never quite knowing where I stand.

I think it does. I know this is through Microsoft, but they give you a month free of Cowork which is currently Opus 4.8 (or at least they did for us) and I doubt we'd ever go back. When I say "we" it's the enterprise organisation "we", but this also where this sort of spending won't stop anyone. I can't go into exact details, but if our first month had not been free, then our most expensive user would've hit around $…

Your most expensive users consuming $1,000 dollars a month doesn't matter in the budget? That seems like FOMO activity or something, I feel like even big teams require proof of ROI for an investment like that (1M). BTW, the ROI of toilet paper + soap is pretty easy to prove (you GET to have employees if you provide those two things).

FWIW we are a smaller company and we had a user run through 500$ in a DAY. Had to put a stop to that. I'm hopeful that our company gets better at asking what the ROI is, what is being built, how much time is it taking, etc... It's no big deal when it's 20 / 100$ a month - but if the prices end up higher we will need to start seeing some returns other than "I feel faster".

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#227

Post by randsorex »

nevi-me wrote: post #127
somenameforme wrote: post #81

Does this affect anybody? It seems they didn't reset your Fable usage so this only applies to people who didn't hit their 50%-of-plan limit with Fable and I can't imagine that's many people given how this thing eats through tokens like that's its job. On Pro I generally could not complete a single plan+execution cycle without hitting my token cap, so that 50% of weekly limit got eaten up fast and I assume that's the…

I maximised usage and have reached the limit. I feel like I did 2 week's worth of hobby work over the last few days. I got Fable to write multiple plans, spent a great part of the weekend reviewing them. Then with superpowers I left must of those plans executing with little intervention over the past few days. I struggled to get Opus to just keep going without trying to convince me that it's late.

"I don't use fable, I just read about it on social media. I read it is all hype and marketing so I don't believe you"

-- 50% of this forum

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#228

Post by _pdp_ »

randsorex wrote: post #225
_pdp_ wrote: post #218

I couldn't find a situation where Fable was significantly outperforming Opus enough to make me say wow. I tried to make it fix a browser game that is sort of like a Mario clone. It couldn't. It fumbled in the same places Opus was struggling too. I tried it with other code as well, but I couldn't get any significant performance improvement out of it, except perhaps in improving my account's token burn. If anything, in…

I agreed last week but the more I have used Fable this week the more I am getting use to Fable. I think the Taleb argument is really a stretch for this situation. I consider Taleb one of my greatest teachers but that kind of Talebism I have grown suspicious of in time. How many surgeons actually look like a butcher lol. Much of Taleb is like this that it sounds profound as a thought experiment but so much has just no…

Fable is better than Opus and I do not think there is much argument there. And yes, it is natural to get used to a new tool and even end up liking it more over time. What I am trying to say is that it does not feel like the step change they are claiming it to be.

I fully agree with your point about Taleb. And yes, it can come across as a bit glib, but the underlying point is not new. Do not judge a book by its cover. That idea exists across many cultures, fables, and stories, so it holds IMHO.

The surgeon example is just an illustration of that idea, and it is a great example because it makes the point memorable. In practice, of course, I agree that most modern surgeons are trained to broadly similar standards and look and act the same, with some outliers and historical exceptions.

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#229

Post by jve »

thisisit wrote: post #208

Despite paying for Claude access, I don't use Fable but I find this always changing policy quite exhausting to follow. There is 2x usage, there is no 2x usage, there is 2x usage but only x hours, there is no 2x usage, there is Fable access, there is no Fable access, there is Fable access till x date, there is Fable access till x + y date. This is just exhausting. I just want to open and usage the default model and wi…

> I just want to open and usage the default model and within limits. That's all I ask.

Well... doesn't it work just like that, always? Open, prompt, get the result form whatever model your agent extension decides now should be the default one.

Re: We're extending access to Fable 5 on all paid plans through July 12

#230

Post by baq »

GRiMe2D wrote: post #217
baq wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$200/mo is the new ‘free’ in the area

Offtop rant: This blows my mind. We cared for 30% commission from Apple App Store, PlayStation Store, Steam for things that you buy once and forget for at least 2 years (even when publisher pull their licenses, which happen rarely), but paying 200$/month for 10x of "something" is okay and "basically steal"

I prefer ‘my usage subsidized by investor money’ but yes it’s a sea change
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