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GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

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Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#171

Post by hodgehog11 »

bberrry wrote: post #112
reassess_blind wrote: post #6

I’m bouncing back between Codex and Claude like a ping-pong ball. I much prefer the experience using Codex, less verbose and to-the-point I’ve found. But Fable, being as strong as it is, is a big draw for Claude right now. I’ll likely switch back to Codex if 5.6 Sol is comparable.

5.6 Sol is extremely good, definitely Fable level from my experience. With 5.6 Sol being half the price and noticeably faster I think Anthropic will find the coming months unpleasant.

I would be absolutely stunned if this were really the case in general given how irresponsibly large Fable is, and 5.6 Sol most definitely is not. It depends on what your problems are though, I suppose, since there are those that swear Fable is at best a minor upgrade over Opus, which has not been my experience.

What type of work is this for in your experience?

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#172

Post by user43928 »

simianwords wrote: post #58

Earlier I predicted that Fable and Sol would be of similar capability, I think I will be wrong. Here is why: there is no indication that there are any classifiers like in Fable. I think OpenAI found out how to lobotomise the model without classifiers but the tradeoff is that it is a weaker model. I wonder how people feel about that. Would you like a highly intelligent jagged model with classifiers or slightly less in…

Based on the pricing I guess GPT 5.6 is the same size as GPT 5.5.

I would not be surprised if it is not as intelligent as the Mythos class models.

I have seen rumors that GPT 6 may release before September. The same person also claimed that a Fable 5.1 checkpoint has been completed a few weeks ago.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#173

Post by hodgehog11 »

ray__ wrote: post #2

Any previewers have hot takes? I've really preferred gpt-5.5 over Opus 4.8 for data analysis and scientific software work. It seems much more reliable. Fable is unusable for the type of work that I do (due to guardrails). Really looking forward to trying these new OpenAI models out.

I'm sorry to hear you are unable to use Fable; my partner is in the same boat and it frustrates her immensely to see what I've been able to do with it. As someone who is working with developing new linear algebra routines, Fable is so far ahead of GPT-5.5 and Opus that it's obscene. Massively better insights and far better at handling delicate corner cases without needing to mention them. I would be stunned if GPT-5.6 is at that level, but one can hope.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#174

Post by embedding-shape »

CjHuber wrote: post #108
tedsanders wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at OpenAI and can confirm that's correct: reasoning tokens are discarded after each new user turn (though not after each message or tool call). Our docs show a diagram here: https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/reasoning > Input and output tokens from each step are carried over, while reasoning tokens are discarded. Keeping reasoning tokens around is better for caching and for remembering past insight…

> fit a lot more work inside the model's context window before you're forced into a slow and lossy compaction step This is something I never understood. Why the reasoning is not included until the context is full, then the reasoning stripped optionally to allow the conversation to continue. and only then when its truly full offer a compaction. Was it to optimize caching? Well I guess it doesn't matter now that you hi…

> Why the reasoning is not included until the context is full, then the reasoning stripped optionally to allow the conversation to continue. and only then when its truly full offer a compaction.

Models are typically trained (at longer conversations/more turns) either with or without the reasoning still in the conversation. If you train a model with those, then using it without them, the model will perform a lot worse, same vice-versa if you train without but then end up using the model with them.

That's why you'll see some models have it and others don't, and trying to use them another way, will make them worse, they weren't trained like that.

So why aren't the models trained with both? I'm guessing that sort of permutation in the training would lead to double the amount of training time being needed, as you know effectively will have two variants of every session you train on, with and without the reasoning.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#175

Post by hodgehog11 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #22
aarvin_roshin wrote: post #4

Thoughts[^0] from Theo, who had early access: > It's a damn good model. Not quite as "smart" as Fable, but it is incredibly capable. Fixed all the problems I had with GPT-5.5. > It is incredibly determined. Will run for a day without even using a /goal. It understands subagents incredibly well and is great at orchestrating. It's super pleasant in use cases like OpenClaw and Hermes Agent. It knows iOS dev incredibly w…

“Understands intent well and hammers until it gets there. “ If there’s anything I learned over the past 12-18 months is that this is a recipe for disaster, except for throwaway stuff. I thought most senior engineers settled on the fact that steering a model yields much better results?

For some tasks, there is no amount of "steering" that will produce sensible code. The model needs to be sufficiently capable as a baseline; this is the "intent" that people are referring to with Fable.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#177

Post by cadamsdotcom »

bottlepalm wrote: post #52

Coding with AI it feels like if you're not using the best model then you're possibly missing out - creating less capable, maintainable, just plain 'good' code. Why waste time using anything less than the best and cleaning up the mess later on. This is why I feel like local models and Chinese models aren't taking off (and Gemini/Grok) - they work, but they're plain just not as good as OpenAI/Anthropic. If you have the…

70s thru 90s computing and even into the early 2000s every new bit of computer meant new capabilities.

Eventually it plateaued and now you can do a decent chunk of your computing on something from 2012.

People keep saying scaling will top out, for example. But scaling keeps stubbornly refusing. New techniques keep coming along too. It's really still exploding into existence and every new generation brings new capability. Eventually it'll clear a ceiling for your key use cases and you'll stop worrying about new models.

It always pays to look back at history and see if you can pattern match.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol, along with Terra and Luna, will launch publicly this Thursday

#178

Post by CjHuber »

satvikpendem wrote: post #155
cbg0 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is because GPT-5.6 is just a more posttrained version of GPT-5.5, not a bigger model than GPT-5.5. What is this very confident assumption based on?

If it were fully trained from scratch, you'd expect to see a major version bump. The other point releases have been fine tunes or post trains.

but 5.5 was also no major version bump
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