Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again • Hacker News Board

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#701

Post by watwut » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:02 AM UTC

caporaltito wrote: post #669

ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

My mate, learn German and be happy they don't ask for B2 or C1. If I move to China and want the nationality, it's absolutely normal that one expects me to speak Chinese. As an Ausländer (who reached C1), I am surprised that you are not talking about the other actual and terrible problems the german society is facing: an aging population relying on immigrants to fill in the gaps, taxes everywhere without the advantage…

> without the advantages of a strong social system

Wut? Germany is socialism personified.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#702

Post by eunos » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:07 AM UTC

smithoc wrote: post #170

akudha wrote: post #125

All this discussion makes me wonder - is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc). It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? I don't know for sure.

> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? The United States. > It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? The world is turning hostile to immigration because the media (and social media sites) highlight and repeat the bad anecdotes, while barely mentioning the actual data…

Yea but the visa law is horrendous tho. 60 days hard deadline if unemployed, CBP invalidating H1B for reasons, can't return if you got laid off out of country, and whatever Trump did recently that made people worry to fly outside the country. Not to mention the brutal green card line.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#703

Post by zerr » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:10 AM UTC

mongol wrote: post #403

zerr wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, when you have already proven that you are net positive for the state, and continue doing so, requiring you to pass some exams is not rational. PR != citizenship. Will I have a bit difficulty buying some groceries in a local market? Maybe, but that shouldn't bother the state. Also, you can live permanently without PR. PR unlocks some additional perks, which again, have nothing to do with linguistics.

You can be a net positive one day, next day you lose your job and are not. On the other hand, permanent is supposed to be without end. An unemployed worker with no language skills in the local language quickly becomes a burden Residency while employed is rational. If you want to stay longer, learn the language

One would say, unemployed with a good local language skills will be able to easier navigate bureaucracy and claim more benefits - more loss for the state :)

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#704

Post by andor » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:11 AM UTC

FinnLobsien wrote: post #178

I‘m German, but I no longer live in Germany, so I can’t relate to the experience of immigrating to Germany. I think a big part of the issue is a certain German presumptuousness. There’s a general sense that Germany is a prosperous, influential country. The reason for that must be that things are done correctly in Germany. I think this is an inherited attitude that doesn’t really correspond to reality anymore as syste…

The "doing things correctly" mentality is the root of so many problems. Bureaucracy, "German engineering" (overengineering), cargo-culting, CYA, error culture, ...

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#705

Post by account42 » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:14 AM UTC

bulbar wrote: post #191

_zoltan_ wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was such a self inflicted wound that Europe, and Germany, did to itself. No wonder people are voting AfD. and for the downvoters: these are facts. this is what the politician in Europe campaigned with, built platforms on and said for everything. "We'll get engineers, and doctors! Lots of workers!" Fast forward 5 years... How's the Willkommenkultur going you ask? Look at AfD. Look recently at the 10 million Switz…

You talking about refugees or migration? That's two totally different things. Germany is in desperate need of migration and yes, the people that come are skilled workers. Refugees is a completely different topic.

The "refugees" are migrants. Low-skilled migrants who would not make it through to normal immigration process but still migrants. They are not coming here for safety but to build a better life for themselves - and their families who are often initially left back home.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#706

Post by vlian2088 » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:14 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #306

vlian2088 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>she can't identify as a German because nobody made her feel like one well, because she isn't one. had she moved to China, she wouldn't magically become Chinese.

As much as Europeans might find the North American notion of identity and citizenship odd and ahistorical and anachronistic, the reverse is also true. The idea of "nationhood" tied to ethnicity isn't even that old on the continent. Just dates to the modern era. People in feudal Europe were not calling themselves Germans. They could barely think beyond their village or fiefdom or whatever. I don't even have to go far…

it doesn't matter whether you call them "German" or "people whose ancestors hail from the region of modern Germany". they are unique people, ethnically and culturally different even from their neighbors, let alone from those being imported from all around the world to suppress their wages and keep their rents high.

it's not controversial, for example, to say that Ukrainians and Russians are different people. the intent behind equating our superficial similarities to us being "one people" is obviously malicious. likewise, it shouldn't be controversial to say that Europeans and South Americans/Asians/Africans/etc are different people. the notion that Hassan ibn Hassan from Mogadishu magically becomes a German if he moves to Frankfurt is as absurd as the notion that Hans Hanssen from Frankfurt would magically become a Somali if he moved to Mogadishu.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#707

Post by mstaoru » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:15 AM UTC

suddenlybananas wrote: post #642

mstaoru wrote: post #580

I can add my anecdote to the language barrier points. At work we speak English, everybody speak English all the time, all docs are in English, all meetings are in English. There's an occasional German email every now and then but people will switch. When we go to a "team building" retreat, all the same teammates that happily chatted with us expats in English just switch to German 100%, full stop. You can come and sta…

God forbid people speak the language of their country.

It's an international team that is specifically hired this way. I wouldn't expect people switching for me in a bar or in an informal setting, but at work or work-related event, it's common courtesy (to me), especially if you're aware.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#708

Post by inigyou » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:16 AM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #283

probably_wrong wrote: post #48

I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…

> First, things are bad As a German, it sounds like you integrated well.

What's that supposed to mean?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#709

Post by FabCH » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:18 AM UTC

account42 wrote: post #663

FabCH wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. Citizenship allows you the final participation: political. The right to be chosen and the right to choose. Everything else applies to anyone who lives permanently in a given place. A permanent resident. FWIW: I personally politically support PRs being given the political right to be voted into office as well.

> FWIW: I personally politically support PRs being given the political right to be voted into office as well. Why? I'd go the other way and only allow political office for natural citizens. After all why would you welcome someone into your country when their goal is to change it - then maybe they would fit better into another country that already works like they want.

Because if the will of the people is for person A to serve in office X, then the will of the people should be absolute. I'd even allow election of minors and other currently non-eligible persons.

The only requirement should be that you are politically member of the given area, which typically means you actually physically live in the city/state/country.

Note, in Switzerland, you can already be voted into office _against your will_. And then you MUST serve. And this has actually happened in recent past, in remote villages to be fair.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#710

Post by mstaoru » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 9:20 AM UTC

adamddev1 wrote: post #678

mstaoru wrote: post #580

I can add my anecdote to the language barrier points. At work we speak English, everybody speak English all the time, all docs are in English, all meetings are in English. There's an occasional German email every now and then but people will switch. When we go to a "team building" retreat, all the same teammates that happily chatted with us expats in English just switch to German 100%, full stop. You can come and sta…

Excellent anecdote. I'm not sure if you're making a judgement about their behavior at the team event. I'm an English native speaker, new in Germany, and learning German. I personally find it really annoying and awkward when other foreigners come into German social situations and expect or push them to speak English. - What right do I have as the foreigner to intrude and get them to speak English? - Social life in ano…

I'm definitely making a judgement :) It is not a social situation, but a work-related event in an international team, where people have varying German language skills (some have almost none, like me). In a true social situation, of course, I will not expect by default a cashier in a shop or a clerk in a bank to speak English to me (though it's appreciated).

> understand as much as you can, and say what little bits you can, in German, not in English. Then study, study, study as much as you can in your time alone

That's the whole point to add to "why people leave Germany". It's a difficult language and not everyone have time to "study, study, study". It leads to isolation, expat bubble, and leaving.