Live data from Hacker News

Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

dw.com

671–680 of 891 posts

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#671
Emigrating is hard. Expect language issue, culture issue, bureaucracy issues. Other countries are not your country but with a different language, living somewhere is not the same as visiting as a tourist.

Emigrating is a generational project, you will forever be a foreigner, your children will be immanent children and only your grandchildren will be true locals.

This is not a government issue, right wing issue, racism, or what not its just a fact of life. Be prepared for it when making the decision.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#672

German discrimination and racism towards migrant workers and visible minorities is world class. And with Alternative für Deutschland / AfD rising rapidly, this is only going to get much, much worse. https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/70478/study-finds-racis... https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/germany-...

I'm from a "southern" country and I lived in Germany for 10 years. My kids were born there. Last year we decided to move to my home country because of "too many things" but also fed up of feeling an immigrant. Few months ago I met a German family living around here in a coastal area. I asked them why they moved here and they answered me straight to my face "Because in Germany there are too many immigrants". I think t…

> I asked them why they moved here and they answered me straight to my face "Because in Germany there are too many immigrants".

This reminds me of those UK elderly living out their pensions in Spain voting for Brexit to reduce immigration. Thanks to outrage media, I think this public perception of immigration ruining everything is almost everywhere now.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#673
One of the reasons is that Germany is not a friendly country for non-german speakers (and/or if you dont have the right profile); I've worked for a while in both Berlin and Munich. In berlin you get away with english, except anything official - from opening a bank account to any interaction with the city council or government services. They will go out of your way to make you feel unwelcome if you are not a fluent german speaker. In Munich is even worse - in many "non-immigrant neighbourhoods" they wont even acknowledge you if you speak english (eg. In the supermarket), though often they understand it perfectly.

Learning german is not easy, but it is absolutely essential if you want to call it home; Id suggest anyone planning a move to start learning beforehand - the idea that you will "wing it by talking to people" is not enough.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#674
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree about it not being "easy". Learning a language certainly takes time and effort, but the fact that even the dumbest people in society can speak fluently, that literal toddlers learn languages, shows that it's far from difficult. It just requires turning your rational mind off, immersing yourself in the language and trusting things will work out, something which more rational/analytic people tend to st…

…young children have immense neural plasticity while adults, especially 40+, have little.

Imo this is so overrated, the biggest difference is that children have 100% exposure and almost all language they come across is tailored exactly to the right level, just for them.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#675

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

Germany is only another economic–region–state under the EU.

How dare they require you speak the local savages' hard language after you've already been working for a multinational corporation for six years.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#676

One of the reasons is that Germany is not a friendly country for non-german speakers (and/or if you dont have the right profile); I've worked for a while in both Berlin and Munich. In berlin you get away with english, except anything official - from opening a bank account to any interaction with the city council or government services. They will go out of your way to make you feel unwelcome if you are not a fluent ge…

[deleted]

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#677
post #125

All this discussion makes me wonder - is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc). It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? I don't know for sure.

Why don’t people migrate to developing countries instead to help them directly. This form of migration makes it appear that Western countries are better. There is a big problem with mass migration and people entering a country with antithetical values and beliefs.

+1

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#678

I can add my anecdote to the language barrier points. At work we speak English, everybody speak English all the time, all docs are in English, all meetings are in English. There's an occasional German email every now and then but people will switch. When we go to a "team building" retreat, all the same teammates that happily chatted with us expats in English just switch to German 100%, full stop. You can come and sta…

Excellent anecdote. I'm not sure if you're making a judgement about their behavior at the team event.

I'm an English native speaker, new in Germany, and learning German. I personally find it really annoying and awkward when other foreigners come into German social situations and expect or push them to speak English.

- What right do I have as the foreigner to intrude and get them to speak English?

- Social life in another language has it's own shared culture, jokes, and social cues. It's not fair or realistic to make people give that all up because some foreigner walked near the circle.

- It's my problem that I'm not yet fluent. It's not their problem that they're not speaking English.

- Some people are shy about their English skills, and they do not want to be pushed to speak English in front of others, in a group social setting.

- If you want exposure and practice, these are the golden opportunities! Take a humble learners position. Be quiet, understand as much as you can, and say what little bits you can, in German, not in English. Then study, study, study as much as you can in your time alone.

I hear fellow foreigners bemoaning the fact that they can't speak German yet, but these same people will inadvertently push English into every social situation they walk into. This just doesn't work. If you want to learn the language of the land, you have to let them speak it.

I find Germans are incredibly friendly and welcoming, especially when you come in humbly, trying to learn, and don't push everyone to speak English.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#679

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

My mate, learn German and be happy they don't ask for B2 or C1. If I move to China and want the nationality, it's absolutely normal that one expects me to speak Chinese. As an Ausländer (who reached C1), I am surprised that you are not talking about the other actual and terrible problems the german society is facing: an aging population relying on immigrants to fill in the gaps, taxes everywhere without the advantage…

> literally no houses below 200k€ in the whole country

There are some below 100k but it's in Marxloh. In Berlin, there are still some below 250k in the outskirt

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#680

One of the reasons is that Germany is not a friendly country for non-german speakers (and/or if you dont have the right profile); I've worked for a while in both Berlin and Munich. In berlin you get away with english, except anything official - from opening a bank account to any interaction with the city council or government services. They will go out of your way to make you feel unwelcome if you are not a fluent ge…

Tja, Nie im Leben würde ich zu Bayern gehen.

I'm surprised that despite its claim to openness and tolerance, cities like Hamburg, Bremen or Hannover are not capitalising on this.

Post reply on HN