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Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

fightchatcontrol.eu

201–210 of 385 posts

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#201

Most everyone would love to see more work on stopping child sexual abuse. But this is the ultimate "grant me dictatorial powers so I can do good" play. Rather than narrow and specific - it's a broad based law that suddenly touches everyone even though offenders are a small percentage and should be able to be targeted more efficiently.

I’ve shared this before, I really like this quote:

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."

H.L. Mencken

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#203

Most everyone would love to see more work on stopping child sexual abuse. But this is the ultimate "grant me dictatorial powers so I can do good" play. Rather than narrow and specific - it's a broad based law that suddenly touches everyone even though offenders are a small percentage and should be able to be targeted more efficiently.

At some point we just have to accept the kids as collateral.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a country can change its mind though

Especially by voting in a party that says it will do it. That's democracy, right?

Why would you care about democracy? Plenty of countries don't have it. Why should America and Europe hold themselves up to such naive, idealistic standards with Middle Eastern countries around who aren't doing the same?

That's essentially the point you made, while conflating pulling the rug out from under people's feet because they've committed the crime of being brown with never having made the offer in the first place.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your quote is very different from the situation you describe. Revoking citizenship is different than no pathway to citizenship. A pathway to citizenship is not open doors.

a country can change its mind though

What countries can do is pretty expansive and unrelated to whether or not they're comparable to other things or good things for countries to do.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you bring this up. Back in the day when I was like 15 and DC++ was still a thing, I used to browse people's shared folders. One day I came across a file called "the paradox of false positive". It was a 1 pager that described how a machine which is 99.9% accurate at identifying terrorists would be completely useless due to this false positive base rate fallacy you're describing. It really stuck with me throughou…

The system we got for this is called parenting. And there is a saying where I grew up: you need a village to raise a kid, I feel like we lost track of that and feel the issues of that now. Btw, von der leyen is trying to get stuff like this written down as laws since 2009, it got her the nickname Zensursula.

> The system we got for this is called parenting

And it fails miserably.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system we got for this is called parenting. And there is a saying where I grew up: you need a village to raise a kid, I feel like we lost track of that and feel the issues of that now. Btw, von der leyen is trying to get stuff like this written down as laws since 2009, it got her the nickname Zensursula.

> The system we got for this is called parenting And it fails miserably.

Not really. Yes most kids will see porn before they're 18 but it doesn't damage them or give them the wrong idea about consensual behaviour.

If anything I find GenZ a lot more focused on explicit consent than GenX.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#208
post #192

What european parties or people are pushing for chat controls?

Conservatives and right-wing. Gives them more control. It‘s a pattern that gets obvious once you see it. It’s so they can hide their own secrets better. In Germany, we have a law that grants you access to information, the "Informationsfreiheitsgesetz“. This was used in the past to uncover morally wrong or illegal behavior, mostly done by the conservative party. This party, as they are currently in charge, is now acti…

Sadly does not really seems tied to left or right directly.

In Spain (you can see this in the website) our traditional left and right parties are largely in favor, while the parties in both ends of the spectrum (at the lack of better term: far left and far right) seem to be largely against.

The sad thing is that it seems that the parties that are already established or likely to alternative in power are the ones that are pushing for it, and this makes it very difficult to fight against

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#209

How do they scan e2e encrypted messages? Will they force apps/OSes to have master keys/institutional backdoors to have access to the private keys?

They could make all e2ee chats, group chats. Where instead of a 1-1 chat between two people or many-many chat between a lot of people, they do 1-1+1 or many-many+1, where the +1 is the government. Technically the underlaying company or anyone else still won't have access to messages and e2ee won't be "broken", except for the fact that there's one more party in the key exchange.

Or they scan at the edge on the user's device.

Either way, both are very prone to false positives and and very much privacy invading.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservatives and right-wing. Gives them more control. It‘s a pattern that gets obvious once you see it. It’s so they can hide their own secrets better. In Germany, we have a law that grants you access to information, the "Informationsfreiheitsgesetz“. This was used in the past to uncover morally wrong or illegal behavior, mostly done by the conservative party. This party, as they are currently in charge, is now acti…

I’m not familiar with the political landscape in Europe so it may well be mostly people on the right pushing this, but man I wish we could stop framing everything as left vs right. That framing is distracting us from the authoritarian vs civil liberties issues, which is a dangerous and immediate threat to our ability to have any significant political influence of any kind.

Conservative politicians and leaders as they label themselves and practically act in today's political landscape are fundamentally on the authoritarian and anti-civil liberties side - there is no distraction. The right is only worse in the extent of authoritarianism and destruction of human rights they're willing to go to and the speed at which they want to achieve it.

If a conservative wants to preserve some status quo, basically all policy they use (and have available as a tool) in a permanently changing and developing world (socially, technologically) is that of restrictions, especially on civil rights, and of authoritarian mechanisms like police power. For weird reasons, conservatives never* want to preserve status quo civil rights like workers rights, freedom of information rights and similar that are anti-authoritatian.

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