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Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

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Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#431

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #334
CM30 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's more than a handful of areas, though I'll grant there are plenty where academia or mainstream media outlets are the most reliable/trusted source. If you're talking about astrophysics, the history of the eastern Roman empire or the US' government foreign policy, the Wikipedia setup will work perfectly. On the other hand, if you're talking about Star Trek, the MCU, Taylor Swift or the Legend of Zelda s…

> if you're talking about Star Trek, the MCU, Taylor Swift or the Legend of Zelda series, the most reliable source is probably not going to be either an academic journal or the New York Times. You lost me here. I mean, yes, there's serious fan community interaction around those subject which is unauthenticated and anonymous. But that's interaction and not research or journalism. You might cite the existence of a favo…

[deleted]

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#432

Post by econ »

dismalaf wrote: post #391
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried looking for reliable secondary sources that discuss the Odin programming language. I couldn't find any. That's not Wikipedia's fault. It is a bit weird that people are insisting that Odin is such a big deal that it must have a Wikipedia page, but apparently no tech website of note has ever mentioned it.

> tech website of note Does anyone care about "tech websites"? Like what, one of those weird websites that thinks they're a newspaper whose revenue collapsed 10 years ago so they only publish clickbait no one reads? Does anyone actually get tech news, especially about programming languages, from a space that's not X, HN, YouTube, GitHub, Codeberg or a user group?

This is the entire debate in a nutshell.

I looked at the php article and it's notability is pretty much taken on faith. No one is silly enough to question it.

I pick that one because there are countless programming articles about less popular topics.

A really good source on wp is an article from a major news outlet that talks exclusively about the topic. It gets more hilarious where a tech news website requires the same.

For example, I never read hackernoon but it's big, old and it has a redaction. What it doesn't have is so called reliable sources. Therefore it was deleted and isn't considered a good source.

If some big newspaper would write about hackernoon it would immediately be worthy of an article and it would be usable for articles about things like Odin.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#433

Post by dismalaf »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #430
dismalaf wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gossip article about Linux, Linus and Rust? You're not selling it...

I gave you the first search result. There are probably tens of thousands of articles in newspapers and magazines about Rust, along with probably hundreds of published books. Unlike Odin, Rust is notable and heavily covered by secondary sources.

If it's so easy to find why did you choose gossip? Take the second hit or third if it's all so technical. But it's not. It's all garbage gossip because Ars Technica is a garbage site, it's like TMZ for nerds.

As for books...

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Odin-Programming-Langua...

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#434

Post by econ »

Alpha3031 wrote: post #429
econ wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda sad to see the only website with such elaborate guidelines fail to follow them. Your argument appears to be that you don't need real evidence to dispose of editors. It seems we agree?

Assuming good faith is not a suicide pact. If you consistently aim to disrupt the project then you obviously should be CBANed. I can't comment on the evidence available in your block discussion, only what you've presented here.

I have no block discussion. I just read other peoples talk pages.

Besides from the obvious cases it is quite subjective what disrupting the project even means.

I'm not trying to stop the character assassination article but I will be a nuance to the process. I will argue this valuable to the project.

Im kinda curious, if a topic is considered a fringe theory, say fringe physics (where the consensus among surviving editors is that it must be denounced as fake until published in a high quality journal) would you oppose including other high quality sources or would you exclude them to help portray the topic as fake?

If one was to reliably demonstrate 1) there to be [say] a giant time travel laboratory, 2) a hundred million research budget and 3) prominent names involved.

Should they now be banned?

(No, I don't believe in time travel)

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#435

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

dismalaf wrote: post #433
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave you the first search result. There are probably tens of thousands of articles in newspapers and magazines about Rust, along with probably hundreds of published books. Unlike Odin, Rust is notable and heavily covered by secondary sources.

If it's so easy to find why did you choose gossip? Take the second hit or third if it's all so technical. But it's not. It's all garbage gossip because Ars Technica is a garbage site, it's like TMZ for nerds. As for books... https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Odin-Programming-Langua...

Is your position that all coverage of Rust is gossip? That's just not a tenable position.

By the way, the article I linked to discusses the history of Rust in the Linux kernel, which is hardly gossip and illustrates why Rust is notable.

You've finally found a better source than YouTube for Odin. Whether it meets Wikipedia's standards will probably depend on whether it's self-published.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#436

Post by chris_wot »

Gander5739 wrote: post #351
chris_wot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more incredible that someone who represents an organisation is allowed to edit the English Wikipedia under that username! Anyone else would have their account banned. But hey, don't expect consistency or fairness from the ones on the English Wikipedia.

GearsDatapacks appears to be a pseudonym, not an organisation.

Except that didn’t stop others from being banned. But hey, admins could never be damned with accusations of consistency (or basic fairness).

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#437

Post by Gander5739 »

chris_wot wrote: post #436
Gander5739 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GearsDatapacks appears to be a pseudonym, not an organisation.

Except that didn’t stop others from being banned. But hey, admins could never be damned with accusations of consistency (or basic fairness).

Such as?

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#438

Post by Alpha3031 »

econ wrote: post #434
Alpha3031 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming good faith is not a suicide pact. If you consistently aim to disrupt the project then you obviously should be CBANed. I can't comment on the evidence available in your block discussion, only what you've presented here.

I have no block discussion. I just read other peoples talk pages. Besides from the obvious cases it is quite subjective what disrupting the project even means. I'm not trying to stop the character assassination article but I will be a nuance to the process. I will argue this valuable to the project. Im kinda curious, if a topic is considered a fringe theory, say fringe physics (where the consensus among surviving edi…

I will not concede that it is at all "subjective" what being disruptive means in the specific case of your intentionally bad-faith trolling. You may choose to categorise that either as an obvious case or refer to my previous comments.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#439

Post by [deleted] »

amiga386 wrote: post #304
strenholme wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Odin is a proprietary language What do you mean by “proprietary language”? To me “proprietary” means closed source, where one can only download binaries, not source code. “proprietary” can also have source code available, but with a license which is not open-source. Odin, however, is an open-source language with an open-source license: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/LICENSE

I knew nothing about this language, despite being a programmer, until today. My takeaway from TFA was this language's claim to relevance is the fact that it's used to produce a product, and the CEO of the company producing the product was trying to vouch for it. Having looked more, this is not right. It seems more like one person who wanted to make video games developed a programming language instead, and now makes t…

[deleted]

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#440

Post by wtetzner »

jibal wrote: post #193
wtetzner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author knows the orientation of his language better than anyone else. The author knows the intention of the language better than anyone else, but that doesn't mean it isn't especially game dev oriented.

Ginger Bill directly addresses this erroneous argument in TFA: > Many people think Odin is "just for games" at the moment, but that tells you more about the people who say that than Odin itself. This is especially true when gamedev is pretty much the most wide domain possible where you will do virtually every area of programming possible. > Odin is a general purpose language; is capable of being used in numerous diff…

> The author knows the orientation of his language better than anyone else.

^ I was only addressing this comment, not the specifics of Odin.

> Odin is a general purpose language; is capable of being used in numerous different areas from application development, servers, graphics, games, kernels, CLI/TUIs, etc.

I would argue that being capable of doing anything is not in conflict with being oriented around something specific. Any Turing complete language is capable of those things.

Again, I don't even know Odin, so I'm not addressing whether or not it is game dev oriented. Only that the arguments themselves don't seem sound.

EDIT: grammar/formatting

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