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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#451

Post by davemp »

aenis wrote: post #187

If I hate anything about the EU, its the morons writing regulations for cars. My car constantly distracts me with some beeps, sometimes loud enough to be dangerous. Its surely one of the reasons far right is on the rise -- with things like 'drivers party' in some European countries winning serious votes. I spend 1-2hrs in the car each day, and I hate what those regulations did to driving. (Worst offenders: Japanese c…

Totally insane that they enshrine this stuff in law without a reference design and corresponding data to validate its effectiveness.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#452

Post by b112 »

bmitc wrote: post #375
b112 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine can be turned off. Three menu items deep, at each and every start of the car. No preferences. I simply disabled the camera and radar. The car was unsafe. Did I mention it emergency braked all the time, for no reason? No, it wasn't me, and almost getting rear ended all the time gets old fast. These systems are far too immature for use.

What car? My Kia has dedicated buttons. It's three presses.

It's a Ford, with almost no physical buttons.

(I edited my comment adding the word deep, to indicate it is 3 clicks deep. Very annoying.)

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#453

Post by thi2 »

aenis wrote: post #187

If I hate anything about the EU, its the morons writing regulations for cars. My car constantly distracts me with some beeps, sometimes loud enough to be dangerous. Its surely one of the reasons far right is on the rise -- with things like 'drivers party' in some European countries winning serious votes. I spend 1-2hrs in the car each day, and I hate what those regulations did to driving. (Worst offenders: Japanese c…

More than once did my lane assistant try to run me into the barrier in a construction zone. You can turn it off, however its on again after on the next start...

And all this comes with insanely high priced repairs that you cant really DIY anymore.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#454

Post by __turbobrew__ »

altern8 wrote: post #156
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Same here. I drive a 1991 Honda Prelude and I don't think I'll want to drive anything else probably ever.

I like 90s cars, but crash safety has come a long way since then. In my opinion late 2000s / early 2010s are the sweet spot between reliability, safety, and simplicity.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#455

Post by yallpendantools »

WalterBright wrote: post #376

Boeing found out the problem with "beeping" alarms. The first time they installed a warning horn, I think it was the stall warning, it was a big success. So, they started adding different horns for other situations. At one point, in an emergency, the pilot got confused about which horn meant what, and had an accident. So now, Boeing replaced horns with a voice, like "pull up". Sounds obvious, right? But car beeps gen…

Reminds me of the tensest moment in my first month driving and with a brand new car too.

I started driving and something beeped. I was in pretty thick traffic at the time so I nervously (I can't emphasize this enough) found a quieter side road to troubleshoot.

I think there was also an indicator on the dashboard to couple with the beep but if it did, the icon representation left much for guesswork. After about five minutes rifling through the manual, I figured out the car was telling me the handbrake was not fully disengaged.

It's not as catastrophic as it sounds---the car drove smoothly when I started it. I was only off by a few millimeters. The way I disengaged the handbrake at the time padded my knuckles between the lever and the panel, leading to a gap from full disengagement.

I would still be confused in traffic had I known what the issue was from the get-go but I would also be way less nervous. The kind of nerves a rookie driver could really do away with. I could've addressed that problem on a red light.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#456

Post by OptionOfT »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

In Europe semi-truck trailers have stickers on them representing their speed limit. Those speed limits differ by country, so quite often you see a truck with 60,70,80 and 90 sticks on it.

So then you're driving in Germany at 200km/h and the camera picks up the 90km/h and brakes aggressively.

I absolutely hate it.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#459

Post by WalterBright »

BurningFrog wrote: post #443
WalterBright wrote: post #376

Boeing found out the problem with "beeping" alarms. The first time they installed a warning horn, I think it was the stall warning, it was a big success. So, they started adding different horns for other situations. At one point, in an emergency, the pilot got confused about which horn meant what, and had an accident. So now, Boeing replaced horns with a voice, like "pull up". Sounds obvious, right? But car beeps gen…

English is the universal aviation language. In other contexts there is no such language, and I can see how the politics of which and how many languages we should include in our car messages may well result in a "let's just use beeps" decision.

You cannot look up "beep" in the manual when you have 40 beeps.

You are not objectively worse off with a word than a beep, even if you do not understand the word.

Driving a car with beeps and chimes and dings means they all mush together and get ignored.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#460

Post by Reason077 »

inventor7777 wrote: post #406
Reason077 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience (Tesla), attention monitoring works well even when I'm wearing sunglasses. The camera can still see my eyes even through dark polarised lenses. It may depend on the sunglasses, however - other people report problems with sunglasses that have mirrored lenses etc.

Sometimes I wonder if Tesla also has a much better software stack than most other manufacturers. IIRC, Tesla has had interior cameras in their cars for years now and I haven't heard about major issues stemming from it.

The camera was not actually used initially. With the old Autopilot software, attention monitoring was (and still is?) exclusively done with steering wheel torque sensors. Our camera got enabled when we purchased the FSD upgrade. I do agree the software is good, however: it's both more effective and much less naggy/annoying than the old "hands on wheel" method.

It still falls back on the torque sensor (requiring hands on wheel) if it thinks you're not paying enough attention, or if it can't see your eyes for whatever reason.

And I guess Tesla must have enabled the camera for all new vehicles now, at least in Europe, given that it's required.

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