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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#391

Post by zerr »

FabCH wrote: post #379
zerr wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, when you have already proven that you are net positive for the state, and continue doing so, requiring you to pass some exams is not rational. PR != citizenship. Will I have a bit difficulty buying some groceries in a local market? Maybe, but that shouldn't bother the state. Also, you can live permanently without PR. PR unlocks some additional perks, which again, have nothing to do with linguistics.

Are you a net positive? Just because somebody pays taxes, it doesn’t necessarily make them a net positive. For example, do you contribute culturally? That can be quite hard to do without speaking the language. What about defense. Would you fight for the country? Hard to do if you don’t understand the orders. What about spiritually? Emotionally?

I believe you are mixing permanent presidentship with citizenship. That's why I've clarified that PR != citizenship.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#392

Post by SepiaSapient »

izacus wrote: post #376
Tade0 wrote: post #58

As an outsider, but hailing from Germany's eastern neighbor and one of the largest sources of immigrants: Overall sentiment is that the juice ain't worth the squeeze any more. Back when my country became a full member of Schengen(2008) the ratio of GDP per capita between Germany and us was around 3.3x - salaries were roughly proportionally higher, so just about any job was worth moving there and potentially going thr…

Will this overall sentiment actually be confirmed with migration numbers if we check them?

Seems like it's true [0], the net migration has fallen since the year 2000. I imagine that the people commute from Poland to DE is also a factor.

[0] https://stat.gov.pl/en/topics/population/internationa-migrat...

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#394

Post by backwardsponcho »

dudul wrote: post #336
ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

How do you live 6 years in a country without reaching B1?

You'd be surprised at the lengths some will go to avoid learning a new language.

I've met people who have lived over 20y in a country while working, having and raising kids there and still can't have a half decent basic conversation in the local language.

There is always an excuse: too much work, too little time, too tired or you name it, but the end result is that they are inconveniencing themselves.

Not saying it is OP's case, just some anecdotal obserevations.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#395

Post by mr_toad »

stickfigure wrote: post #268
dghlsakjg wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that a group of independent states spanning a huge part of a continent that banded together into a country in the 1800s forms a country that is also an ethnicity, but that a group of independent states spanning a huge part of a continent that banded together even longer ago is not a country that is also an ethnicity?

The difference is that - excepting about 1.4% of the population - everyone here in the US is either an immigrant or descended from immigrants. Most of them long after the Mayflower sailed. However long it takes to create a new capital-E Ethnicity, it hasn't been long enough.

German citizens didn’t evolve in Germany. Any attempt to delineate ethnicity based on how long you ancestors have been in a country is just a veiled attempt to argue that you belong and they don’t.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#396

Post by 14u2c »

dgs_sgd wrote: post #237
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B1 is a completely fair minimum standard. It's normal for many countries to expect residents to have basic conversational adequacy. It's also the kind of requirement that's made explicit on government information about residency. So it shouldn't have been a surprise.

Like, I imagine if I moved to a country and couldn’t do the B1 things in their language, I would have daily obstacles doing basic life things.

Not in most of Western and Central Europe. Everyone speaks great English.

It actually can be a problem because most people switch to English as soon as they realize your are not a native speaker, which can make learning harder.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#397

Post by ant6n »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #109
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #5

I lived there for around 6 months like 15 years ago so perhaps it's changed a lot since then. But even as an Englishman, it was very different to home. I remember the supermarket was shut all Sunday and was only open until 12 on the Saturday, and it shut early in the week too (at like 5pm or 6pm or something?) so by the time I'd got the train back home from work it was already closed. I had to get up early every Satu…

to quote a relative "Germany is a great country to live in, except for all of the Germans"

I thought that’s what they say about Berlin

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#398

Post by mongol »

zerr wrote: post #284
lispisok wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your complaint is you wanted permanent residence in Germany but did not want to learn to speak German?

Permanent residency is a business deal between two entities: an individual and a state. It has nothing to do with linguistics. There are many Germans permanently living in Vietnam, Thailand and other Southeast Asian countries, who never bothered to even learn how to say Hello, not to mention any certificate or exam...

No, permanent residency is more than a business deal. It is a deal about all aspects of life, business or not.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#399

Post by SepiaSapient »

froh wrote: post #136
sinuhe69 wrote: post #67

When people came to the country to work then retire somewhere else, isn’t it not a net benefit for Germany? Less burden on the social net, healthcare system etc. So what the Germans did is right, not wrong!

errr, no? when you work here for long enough you accrue pension benefits which are paid out wherever you live. if you retire abroad you spend the pension abroad. that's a net loss for the nation.

Wouldn't the lack of medical expenditure win out against the loss of consumption from a pension?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#400

Post by SJetKaran »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #337
BeetleB wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc.

> I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc. Concerning "part of the in-group": It is very usual that in Germany, you don't become a "friend" fast (the German translation of "friend", [der] Freund, has a much deeper meaning than the US-American understanding of the English word). Fri…

Hypothesis - I wonder if this is about places with lot of movement vs places that don't. Internal movement within US, even within rural communities, might be more than in Germany? and so, society tends to be more accepting of new incoming people?
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